20
2009
Building The 2010 New York Mets
An article by Former Writers
MLB Trade Rumors reports that the Mets have approximately $110M in salary commitments for 2010. Assuming that Omar (and Jeff) can spend and equal last year’s payroll, he has approximately $30M to spend. Below is a position by position account of who we have and what we need. After spending the money, let’s see if we have a chance next year.
Position Players:.
- 1st base – Daniel Murphy, Carlos Delgado, Prince Fielder, Adrian Gonzalez, Nick Johnson, Mark DeRosa. Forget about Fielder and Gonzalez; we’d have to mortgage the farm and more. A platoon of Murphy and a RH 1st baseman would be the cheapest way to go. Sign Mark DeRosa for $6M. He can platoon at 1st base and play 2nd base. Assumption – Sign DeRosa: This uses $6M of the $30M (but see 2nd base for more)
- 2nd base – Luis Castillo, Orlando Hudson, Dan Uggla, Mark DeRosa. I think it makes sense to trade Castillo and pay $4M of his $6M salary. Then go out and get either Hudson ($5M), trade for Uggla (with arbitration he could get $6M),or sign DeRosa ($6M). If we sign DeRosa, we can use him as the regular 2nd baseman and the RH platoon at 1st base. Assumption – Sign DeRosa (his salary is already included in 1st base above and we save $2M from the Castillo trade).
- SS – Jose Reyes – Assume Jose is healthy and ready to go. Assumption – No use of the $30M
- 3B – David Wright – Wright will play his 159 games next year. Still, there are question marks. I don’t think we can assume that David can return to his ’08 numbers. Also, David has a terrible arm at 3rd base and it really hurts the team. Assumption- No use of the $30M.
- LF- We need one. Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, Carl Crawford. Otherwise Pagan is the probable starter. Pagan would be best suited as a roving outfielder filling in for any of the OF positions while still playing 100+ games. Matt Holliday, and Jason Bay, will be very costly at $15M+ per year for 5+ years. How about trading for Carlos Lee of the Astros? He has 2 years and $36M left; so there is no long term commitment. The cheaper option is Crawford ($10M next year), but he would have significant trade value. Matt Holliday is the best option.. Assumption - Sign Matt Holliday: This uses $18M of the $30M.
- CF - Carlos Beltran- Hopefully, one of the few spots that there is no question mark. Assumption – No use of the $30M.
- RF – Jeff Francoeur or other. Let’s say it’s Francoeur. And let’s hope, he hits 20 home runs. Assumption – No use of the $30M.
- Catcher – Strong possibility of a tandem of Thole and someone else. I think Thole will make the team and split duties with someone like Benjie Molina or Rod Barajas (maybe trade for Mike Napoli). Molina made $6.5M in ’09, but should make less next year. He hit 20 HR and 80 RBI but hit .265 with an OBP of .285 (only 13 walks), and threw out 25 out 110 potential base stealers. Barajas made 2.5M in ’09. He hit 19 homers and 71 RBI but hit .226 with an OBP of .258, and he threw out 27 out of 80 attempted base stealers. These guys hit home runs, but offensively, nothing else. Is Thole good enough defensively to play 100 games? And with no power? Even with Thole, it makes sense to have a safety net. Assumption – Get one of the catchers above: This uses $3M of the $30M.
Pitching:
- Johan Santana – Had surgery on elbow at end of year. But he should be healthy and ready to go for 2010. Assumption - No use of $30M
- Oliver Perez – Nightmare of a season. Can he even make the team? Or trade him for another bad contract. Assumption – No use of the $30M.
- John Maine – Missed several months of season due to shoulder injury. He pitched effectively in September, giving hope that he could be in the starting rotation as a #3/#4. Assumption – No use of the the $30M.
- Mike Pelfrey – Very disappointing season. With a bad performance in the Spring, he might find himself back in the minors. The best you can count on him for is a #5. Assumption – No use of the $30M
- Jon Niese – Coming off bad hamstring injury. Missing the end of the season could set him back from an experience point of view. Could very well be the #5 starter. Assumption – No use of the $30M.
- Tim Redding – If he’s back, even with his solid finish, he’s a #5 or in the bullpen.
- Bobby Parnell - He’s in the bullpen.
- Pat Misch, Nelson Figueroa, Fernando Nieve – Personally, I like Figueroa. He really competes.
Our starting rotation has Santana(#1), John Maine (#3/4), Pelfrey (#5), Jon Niese (#5), Oliver Perez (#5 or not in rotation), or others from last year as a #5. This is terrible!
Our need is a #2 starting pitcher. We’ll have to band-aid the rest of the rotation. A true #2 is John Lackey who will get $15M in the free agent market. Trading for Roy Halladay is too expensive. It will cost the farm and more, plus giving him a new contract at $20M. Lackey at 5 years, $80M (Burnett and Lowe money) is so risky. Let’s be smart and not do it. We need to hit the trade market. How about Roy Oswalt at $15M for only one year? Or Ricky Nolasco who will make about $5M through arbitration. Assumption:Trade for Nolasco: That uses up another $5M of our $30M.
Guess what? We’ve just spent $30M, which pretty much equals our budget.. Easy Come. Easy Go.
Remember – I’ve stuck to a budget. We haven’t helped the relief pitching or the bench at all. And we didn’t get that true #2 starting stud pitcher.
I hope you’ll leave your comments, so next week, I can incorporate them into this plan, to get a better picture of what our 2010 Mets might look like.
For more of my opinions, visit me at Danny Baseball
About the Author: Former Writers
69 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nationals | 26 | 18 | .591 | - |
| Braves | 26 | 20 | .565 | 1.0 |
| Mets | 24 | 21 | .533 | 2.5 |
| Marlins | 24 | 21 | .533 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 23 | 23 | .500 | 4.0 |
Last updated: 05/25/2012
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Write Your Own Mets Post
Way to go Danny, you’ve figured out a fool proof method to secure 2nd place in the east. Cheers to mediocrity.
Let’s see you do better with a budget of $140 million.
Second place, FP? Whatcha smokin’? Third maybe.
Boy, Danny Boy, that was an exciting 2010 Mets scenario you just sketched. Here’s thinkin’ it will bear no relationship to the reality of the 2010 Mets.
Pitching staff should be gutted.
You’re another guy who has no grip on reality. Just to throw around inane statements like “gut the pitching staff”, is ignorant.
Get Marquis, Hudson, and Kazmir.
Got yer grip right here!
DANNY PHILADELPHIA HAS ALREADY ESTABLISHED THEMSELVES AS THE POWERHITTING CLASS OF THE LEAGUE, LET ALONE THE DIVISION.
ATLANTA IS WELL ON IT’S WAY TO REESTABLISHING IT’S ROTATIONAL CRED ESP IF THEY’RE ABLE TO DEAL LOWE & RETAIN HUDDY FOR LESS.
CONSIDERING THE ABOVE YOU’VE PREDICTED YRS OF THIRD PLACE FINISHES & THE DEMISE OF MEANINGFUL GAMES.
I BELIEVE YOU HAVE MISSED TWO CONTRADICTORY MET FACTS IN YOUR PLAN. FACT #1, THE METS DO NOT INCLUDE OFFSET CASH IN CONTRACT DUMPS AS STATED BY JEFF WILPON WHILE DISMANTLING ’04 ROSTER BY DUQUETTE.
FACT 2: METS DO NOT RELEASE PLAYERS TO EAT THEIR CONTRACTS, THEREFORE PEREZ IS AS SET IN ROTATION AS JOHAN.
ALL IS NOT SO DISMAL, I THINK, SINCE I BELIEVE U’VE OVERSTATED BREWS POSITION RE. FIELDER. ESP SINCE TWO UNRELATED ITEMS HAVE SURFACED IN PRESS. BREWS GM PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED HIS MISSION TO ADD 2 ARMS TO THEIR DISMAL ROTATION. BREWS HIRED RICK PETERSON AS PITCHING COACH.
THE BREWS ARE ATTEMPTING TO REDUCE PAYROLL FROM THEIR 2009 17th HIGHEST 80.3M TO SOMEWHERE IN LOWER THIRD POSITION 20+, BELOW 75M. FIELDER IS A BORAS CLIENT WHO’S UNLIKELY TO RESIGN IN MILWALKEE, EVEN IF THEY COULD AFFORD TO. I WOULD PROPOSE FULFILLING THEIR 2 ARM NEED FROM OUR EXCESS BACKEND SPing OF PEREZ,PELFREY,NIESE,NIEVE,MISCH. I’D THINK A NUCLEUS OF PELFREY & NIESE MAY DO IT; BUT PETERSON WOULD LIKELY LOVE A REUNION WITH PELFREY & MAINE.
ADDING PRINCE’S 40+HR @ 10.5M WOULD RESOLVE 2 NEEDS 1B & CLEANUP HITTER WE’RE LACKING. RESOLVING 1B THAT INEXPENSIVELY COULD ENABLE THE ADDITIONS OF BOTH LACKEY & MARQUIS TO IMPROVE THE ROTATION. COMBO OF PEREZ,NIESE,NIEVE COULD BE OPEN CMOPETITION FOR 4 & 5. FIELDER FOR 1Y OPENS 1B TO DAVIS FOR ’11; NYM REAP DRAFT PICK COMPENSATION FOR HIS LOSS.
Met62Fan
I just don’t understand why you think Fielder could be had for so little.
I don’t think the Brewers would make that trade if you gave them everyone on your list.
Danny
DANNY, YOUR POST THAT QUESTIONS WHY I THINK BREWS WOULD TAKE “SO LITTLE” FOR FIELDER HASN’T APPEARED YET; I’LL RESPOND ON THIS ONE.
THE BREWERS GM WAS QUOTED BY MILWALKEE PRESS STATING HIS MISSION WAS TO ADD 2 NON-SPECIFIC “ESTABLISHED” ROTATION ARMS & WILLING TO DEAL HIS TOP PROSPECT TO GET IT DONE. THE BREWERS JUST HIRED RICK PETERSON AS THEIR NEW PITCHING COACH TO IMPROVE THEIR MLB WORST ROTATIONAL PITCHING STAFF 5.3+ ERA
ALTHOUGH THE BREWERS ARE ON RECORD AS NOT SHOPPING FIELDER, STATING THEIR INTENT TO RETAIN HIM; BUT AS A BORAS CLIENT IT’S OBVIOUS THEY WON’T. FIELDER’S CONTRACT FOR 10.5M EXPIRES IN ’10 AND IS A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF THEIR PRESENT ’10 PAYROLL COMMITMENT(38.813M)27%. WHILE YOU MAY NOT VALUE PELFREY & MAINE, THEY ARE BOTH SUBSTANTIAL UPGRADES TO THE PRESENT MILW ROTATION:
GALLARO 13-12 3.73
LOOPER* 14-7 5.22
SUPPAN 7-12 5.29
PARRA 11-11 6.36
BUSH 6-9 6.38
*LOOPER HAS CLUB OPTION FOR 6M WHICH HE CAN DECLINE
IN THIS ECONOMIC CLIMATE, A 10.5M 1Y CONTRACT ISN’T LIKELY TO BE MOVED FOR BETTER PROVEN ARMS ESP WHILE RETAINING YOUR TOP PROSPECT.
WHEN THINKING DEALS, I USUALLY DON’T CONSIDER A PLAYER’S PERCEIVED VALUE IN NY; BUT RATHER HIS RELATIVE VALUE WITHIN THE ASSUMING ORGANIZATION.
IF IT WAS A BREAK POINT TO A DEAL I’D EVEN INCLUDE MURPHY AS A CHEAP 1B REPLACEMENT. FOR A TEAM ATTEMPTING TO LOOK GOOD WHILE REDUCING AN 80M PAYROLL, MY OFFER WOULD HAVE MERIT FOR SERIOUS CONSIDERATION
SEE THIS REPOORT FROM TEAM SITE:
MILWAUKEE — Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said he may need to sacrifice some of the team’s offense this winter to improve the pitching staff, so he was asked the obvious follow-up. Is he willing to trade Ryan Braun or Prince Fielder?
“Wow. That would be a tough one,” Melvin said. “I didn’t mean it that way. I don’t see that happening.”
The comment came Wednesday during Melvin’s annual year-end meeting with local reporters at Miller Park. Both Melvin and assistant GM Gord Ash said what they have been saying for weeks, that in order to improve a team that finished 80-82 they will have to bolster a pitching staff that finished next-to-last in the National League with a 4.87 ERA and at the bottom with a 5.37 starters’ ERA. Melvin said he wants to add at least two established starters.
WITH PETERSON AS THEIR NEW PC COMPARED TO THE ROTATION HE’LL BE GIVEN THE ADDITIONS OF 2 OF THESE 3 WOULD BE WELCOME:
PELFREY 10-12 5.03
MAINE 7-6 4.43
NIESE 1-1 4.21
FURTHER CONSIDERATIONS, SHOULD LOOPER REJECT THEIR OPTION @6M HE’S PROJECTED A TYPE-B WHO’LL COMMAND MORE THE 6M ON OPEN MKT FROM MANY TEAMS. UNLESS THEY ARE PREPARED TO DOUBLE FIELDER’S 10M SALARY AS BORAS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY DEMAND ONLY AN INEPT GM KEEPS HIM FOR DRAFT PICK COMPENSATION. MELVIN IS NOT INEPT.
LAST POINT, WHAT TAMPA FAN WOULD EVER CONCEIVE OF ACQUIRING KAZMIR FOR ZAMBRANO? BEAUTY IS ALWAYS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER.
To: Mets62fan
I have to correct one of your stated facts. While it is true that Fielder’s two year contract ends after this year, he is indeed under team control for 2011. That is a major thing.
Even so, Fielder is the equivalent to an ace, and there’s no reason why he wouldn’t be worth what Toronto could get for Roy Halladay.
Pelfrey has very little value. Maine has been hurt for two years now.
Niese is a rookie who has been hurt. The Brewers are getting nothing.
Just because the Twins screwed up on Santana, doesn’t mean the Brewers will screw up too.
DANNY, SORRY I MISSED THAT; BUT I STILL DISAGREE WITH YOUR DISCOUNTING THE VALUE OF MAINE & PELFREY. HAVE U LOOKED AT BREWS’ CURRENT SP? THE STATS FOR BOTH IN A TEAN DISASTER YEAR OF ’09 WOULD PLACE BOTH AS #2 & 3 RESPECTIVELY AMONGST BREWS’ CURRENT ROTATION. WITH HAVING JUST HIRED PETERSON & VOWING AN INTENT TO ADD 2 “EXPERIENCED” ARMS TO THE ROTATION. MELVIN WOULD BE ON THE LISTENING END OF PETERSON’S “10 MIN FIX” SPEECH HE’S SO PEERSUASIVE AT. COMBINED THE 2 SP DON’T EARN HALF OF PRINCE’S ’10 CONTRACT.
NY DESPERATLY NEEDS LF,1B,#1C & CLEANUP HITTER FIELDER’S A TWOFER #1B & #4 HITTER. THEY CAN’T RETAIN HIM PAST 11 UNLESS THEY DOUBLE HIS SALARY AS HE’LL HAVE HIS 5YRS
IN MY OPINION HE IS THE ONLY “MUST HAVE” OUT THERE FOR NYM. #2SP COULD BE EITHER HALLADAY OR LACKEY. THEY, IN MY OPINION, ALSO NEED TO ADD 40+ HR, SOMEHOW & PRINCE CAN DO THAT AS A SOLO ACT. La ROCHE WON’T LEAVE ATLANTA AFTER PINING TO GO BACK THERE & HE’S A HALF-SEASON PRODUCER. THUS A HALF-ASS SOLUTION. THAT ONLY LEAVES A RESURRECTED DELGADO OR PRYING FIELDER AWAY AS 1B POWER OPTIONS. HERE’S HIS CURRENT CONTRACT PARTICULARS:
Prince Fielder 1b
2 year/$18M (2009-10)
signed extension with Milwaukee 1/23/09 (avoided arbitration, $8M-$6M)
$1M signing bonus
09:$6.5M, 10:$10.5M
performance bonus: $0.5M for 500 PAs
award bonus: $25,000 for All Star selection
1 year/$0.67M (2008)
renewed by Milwaukee 3/2/08
1 year/$0.415M (2007)
renewed by Milwaukee 3/07
1 year/$0.3295M (2006)
re-signed by Milwaukee 2/06
1 year (2005)
contract purchased by Milwaukee 6/05
drafted 2002 (1-7)
$2.4M signing bonus
agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 3.068
While it may not be exactly what happens I think Danny’s is the closest to what will probably happen. Good job even though it may not be what people would like to hear. A tweak here or there from this template and you could get a contender, you never know.
Thank you. Unlike some of the others you must have a job and a family, and you know how little $1 (or $140M) goes.
ss – Reyes
2b – Hudson/DeRosa
lf – Holliday*
cf – Beltran
3b – Wright
1b – Murphy/DeRosa
rf – Francouer
c – Thole/Santos
P – Pitcher
*Give Boras everything Holliday wants
Rotation:
Santana
Lackey*
Pelfrey
Maine
Niese, Ollie, Misch, Figgy, Redding (NOT Parnell)
*Lackey – 5yr/80m
Bullpen:
K-Rod
Putz*
Parnell
Chad Bradford**
Stokes
Feliciano
Beimel
Bench: Pagan, Thole, Tatis, DeRosa, Carter/Sullivan/And-Hern
Caveat – Don’t expect a one-year turnaround. Allow guys in minor league time to mature. No stupid trades – lets see what we have down there.
The lineup is not bad. If Reyes, Beltran, and Wright can come back strong, we will be good.
Quite the set of IF’S, don’t you think?
MASK, HERE’S ANOTHER ‘IF’ IN LINE WITH MUCH OF TYHE NEGATIVITY I’M READING FROM ALL: “IF” TOMORROW IS THE END OF DAYS, NONE OF THIS CRAP MATTERS! LMAO! REMEMBER IT’S MORE LIKELY FROZEN PISS FROM A PLANE THAN THE SKY.
TOMMY, I’M GUESSING YOUR FAITH IN THE FARM IS BASED ON JUST “BLIND” FAITH.
LET ME OPEN YOUR EYES & IMPART THE ‘MIRACLE OF INSIGHT’; FACT, THE METS HAVE ADHERRED TO SELIG’S SLOTTING GUIDELINES SINCE ’05 & HAVE NOT HAD A TRUE FIRST ROUND PICK SINCE THEN. FIRST ROUNDERS=PROSPECTS; LATER DOUNDERS=SUSPECTS. WHILE U HEAR GLOWING COMMENTARY ON SOME LIKE DAVIS,FLORES,HAVENS,KUNZ,et al, THEY ARE BY FAR THE BEST WE HAVE NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST IN ANY LEVEL. EVERYONE WANTS TO BLAME JERRY FOR “LACK OF FUNDIES” WHAT CAN U EXPECT FROM THIRD ROUND ILK THAT’S FAST-TRACXKED? SEE MURPHY,EVANS,ETC. THERE IS CERTAINLY A REASON WHY OUR CALLUPS FLAIL WHILE OTHER TEAM’S SUCCEED. CONSIDER THIS: WHEN OMAR WAS HIRED THERE WAS ONLY ONE TOP PROSPECT IN THE ENTIRE SYSTEM…MILLEDGE & HE FELL TO US DUE TO QUESTIONS RE. HIS MAKEUP. SINCE OMAR WAS FIRST HIRED WE’VE SPENT OUR FIRSTROUNDERS BY SUPPLEMENTING/REPLACING A MEDIOCRE MLB ROSTER WITH PEDRO, BELTRAN, WAGNER, K-ROD. WHERE DO U SEE THE POTENTIAL FOR FIELDING A TEAM CAPABLE OF HOLDING OFF THE GNATS & THEIR FIRSTROUNDERS?
CAN U SEE YET?
Kuntz and Evans for Nolasco? I don’t think so. How about Murphy and Parnell?
Nope. Not enough either.
Signing someone like Uggla would give s the worst defensive infield in the history of baseball. Where is DeRosa playing–first or second? Does this mean we keep either Castillo or MUrphy in the starting lineup.Nolasco is no 2. Here is my opnion: don’t build for 2010. Unbuild. See what we can get in the way of healthy productive players with some youth for the garbage we throw out there every day. Holliday is no savior, and Beltran, IMHO, is a physical shell of his former self. Wright and Reyes are both head cases, for dfferent reasons. Francoeur is average. Maine is a waste of space, Ollie is an inveterate underachiever and Pelfrey is insane. Is Tim Redding still here next year? Why? Face it-this team is shot. The only thing i would pay for is some pitching long term. Outfielders are a dime a dozen. let’s pay for one when it will matter. In the meantime we whould build a young team with a few prospects in waiting. Stupid Jeffie is delaying the inevitable–getting Omar and Jerry out of here and relegating himself to an ivory tower somewhere, while some professional management comes in and rights the ship.
What happened to the Jeff Wilpon promises that money was not an issue and Omar was going to make deals and sign FA’s to put a championship team on the field? That’s all forgotten already and we’re back to pinching pennies? Come on guys! Get with the program and hold the Wilpon’s feet to the fire. Field a championship team, Please!
I went under the assumption that they will match last year’s payroll.
I don’t believe that’s what they said in their recent statement to the fans. I thought they stated there were no limits, they were financially sound, the Mes were insulated from the Madoff allegations, and the objective was competing for Championship.
That was a typo. I meant Mets even though Mess might be more appropriate.
Today’s story in the Daily News claims tht the Mets pulled all their $ out of Madoff and actually took out more than they put in before the scheme crashed. So perhaps the Mets do actually have $ to spend and all this penny pinching approach is off base.
I heard some reports that some of the Madoff investors were able to pull their money out before it crashed.
Jeffie is a snake. All he really said was that they intended to still have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, which they would have if they cut 30 mil. Ut us the Won’tpon way.
I don’t think Derosa comes here as a bench player, I think Murphy will be the 1b, with a much cheaper RH bat off the bench as a compliment, i think they take the 6 million and use it on a SP, just my opinion.
30 million huh, lets see…..
Juan Pierre for Oliver perez, save 3 million
Bonderman or Willis for Castillo, use 3 million
Sign Hudson for 5 million-8 million used.
Sign Molina for 3 million to catch-11 million used.
6 million for Nick Johnson-17 million used.
Sign Randy Wolf for 8 million-25 million used.
I guess there going to re-sign putz, even though i don’t like it, so I’ll say 2.5 million which means 27.5 million used.
Lastly LH RP Joe Biemel for 2.5 million.
There’s ur 30 million…..
I know it is not ur big power team, I just can’t bring myself to give Matt Holliday or Bay Mark Texertia money, I am sorry i can’t give him 18 million. But if u look at the team and I will break it down in a minute, this team would play well under the dimensions of our ballpark.
.
Lineup:
1. Reyes-SS, 2. Juan Pierre(300avg, 30 plus steals last year), 3. Beltran-CF, 4. David Wright-3b, 5. Nick Johnson, 6. Jeff Franceour, 7. Orlando Hudson-2b, 8. Bengie molina-C, yes there is not a true power hitter on that team, but it’s not that bad either. And in that lineup there is good defensive team and a good fundamentaly sound team.
Rotation-I know this is not going to excite people but it’s not horrible it would be Santana, Wolf, Bonderman or Willis, Pelfrey and Maine. hey if it’s willis u have 3 LH pitcher’s to go vs Philly, hey u guys wanted castillo out, u wanted perez out, well….. this is out.
Bullpen-K-rod, Putz, Biemel, Stokes, Parnell, Feliciano…..not too bad, if that Jerry Mejjia is ready, it might be even better.
If you think anyone is taking Perez’s contract you’re mental. He’s overpaid, a headcase, in consistent, and coming off an injury marred season. He’s here to stay.
You want to trade for Dontrelle Willis, that’s great. He can’t think straight either. You’d be replacing Oliver Perez with Oliver Perez.
The salaries for Beimel and Putz are not enough. This scenario can’t happen.
Look at it this way, there is a young core with Francouer, Reyes, and Wright. Assuming Reyes and Wright are healthy. And talk bad about Francouer all you want, but he’s a good fielder. In addition he was the best offensive player in our train wreck of a season. .311, 10 HR, and 41 RBI with almost no help isn’t too bad. I’d like to see him walk more, but what happens when he gets protection around him?
Let Thole and Ike Davis get some seasoning in the minors.
Open season for trading should commence. Prospects and young major league talent could be had for K-Rod, Beltran, and Santana. I’m not saying give them away for a bag of balls, but coupling this with good drafting (and paying above slot money as needed) can really help the future of the franchise. I’m in this for the long haul, and the organization should be too.
Obviously, this would mean filling out the roster with some role players and average major league players. Signing superstars and losing draft picks hasn’t been working. Time to start a new direction.
Develop players, and bring them up. Then begin signings to fill in needs when we have a deep team that may be just a player or so away.
I too want a team that will compete for a world series championship year in and year out and I feel the only way to do this is through the farm system. #1.) Young players brought up through the system will play the way you teach them (fundamentals, defensivly sound, patience at the plate advancing runners ect) #2.) Players coming up together and brought up through the same system have chemistry and belief in each other. They have already experienced success and failure together They combine to share the load rather than feeling the pressure of having to do it all themselves like the big ticket free agent trying to justify his contract or get another bite of the pie. # 3.) You get the best years of the player at the least cost which means you can supplement when you are close. #4.) I’f you have options coming up from the farm and you lose a guy through free agency you probably are gaining high draft pick(s) this is a self sustaining business model. I’f you are constantly losing high draft picks you have no option down the road but to spend more picks and WAY more money to address your needs and your never going to have the chemistry you will with the young guys anyway. All you can hope for is to get ONE before you crash and if you don’t you just keep chasing your tail. You know with all the years playing and watching baseball and the access to baseball statistics that we have lots of us could put together a competetive team but I know I can’t tell who is a future major leaguer and what position they might excell at. I can’t scout sign and DEVELOP young players with an eye toward the future. This is the hard work that WE pay someone to do and I have to question if its being done. How after 2 stop gap catchers can we not have a major league ready backstop in the system? Why can’t we ever go in house and tell Boras we know your client has options but so do we. Free agency is like a credit card, use it rarely and wisly or be prepared to pay a hefty price.
SANE YOU’RE NOT IS ABOUT AS POLITE AS I CAN SAY, “ARE U NUTS? IN THIS ECONOMY YOU PRESUME TO DEAL 2 PLAYERS EARNING 18M+ THAT HAVE NO-TRADES WITH BOTH RETURNING FROM INJURY? U DO REALIZE THERRRE ARE DRUG LAWS IN EFFECT IN THIS COUNTRY? DON’T U? WERE U PLANNING ON NOT WINNING UNTIL 2015 OR SO? BREAKING SLOT GUIDELINES? WHO OWNS THE CLUB YOU ROOT FOR?
I’M SORRY FOR THE CALOUSNESS OF MY REMARKS; BUT THE INCREDULITY OF YOUR PROPOSAL WHLIE USING A ‘SANE’ MONIKER WAS BEYOND MY BELIEF. WHY NOT PROPOSE TO TRASDE PEREZ FOR HALLADAY STRAIGHT UP, IT WOULD MAKE SIMILAR SENSE.
BTW WHO’S YOUR #4 HITTER OR DOERSN’T THAT MATTER?
Listen, it doesn’t hurt to see what’s available for players on your roster who have some value. The country does have drug laws, what does that have to do with testing the market?
I’m not saying trade them above all else, but if a deal can be made that can help put some depth into the franchise, it should be considered.
Why not trade Oliver Perez? I’m all for it, but if you think you’re anything of value will be received for Ollie you’re nuts. The only way we get anything for him is if we eat his whole salary. I promise even so we’ll get a career minor league player.
Where’s my #4 hitter? Who’s the Mets’ #4 hitter now? Beltran is much better suited as a #2 hitter.
As far as Nick Johnson is concerned, your team was just decimated by injuries. Let’s sign Nick Johnson. (Sarcasm intended). I have no problem with Johnson. He’s a great, solid player, when he’s healthy. You can’t depend on him to be there for a full season.
Why do I want the Mets to pay above the slot system. Most teams do, it allows a team to draft better talent. If you’re telling me that Pittsburgh has more money than the Mets, I don’t know what you want from me.
Do I plan on winning before 2015? Here’s my follow-up, do the Mets?
Look, a strong minor league foundation that can produce major league players and valuable trade chips is a must. If trades can be made to bolster that then why not? If paying above slot allows us to draft better talent, I’m all for it. Obviously this team is not winning. Yes, everyone was injured. So why should we assume that injuries will not occur again. The Red Sox are able to produce capable players from their farm system and supplement them with free agency. The Yankees are now doing the same. Does it mean the team will have to be terrible in the interim. Possibly, but long term competitive baseball is the key. In our current state, that is not an option.
I would accept an apology for your remarks, but a) typing in all caps just makes me not take you seriously, b) your grammar is so bad I really don’t understand a large portion of your post, and c) I don’t care enough what people post on forums to be offended.
SANE, I’M SORRY I DIDN’T NOTICE U ARE SOMEWHAT NEW TO THE SITE; IF YOU WREEN’T U WOULD KNOW THAT MY USE OF CAPSLOCK IS A DISABILITY ACCOMODATION. TYPOS ARE SOMETHING I TRY TO MINIMIZE AS BEST I CAN. I DON’T CONSIDER SANITY AS SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT ACCEPT ESTABLISHED FACTS. FACT #1. THE WILPONS WILL NOT PAY OUTSIDE OF SLOTS. THAT FACT CERTAINLY STRUCK OMAR AS A SUPRISE AFTER HE SIGNED PEDRO & BELTRAN AS HIS SUBSEQUENT INTERVIEWS SHOWED. QUOTES SUCH AS, “I’LL HAVE TO LOOK INTO CHANGING THAT(SLOTTING RULES)”
FACT #2.(NOT PERTINENT TO YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS; BUT BARES MENTIONING) THE METS WILL NEVER EXCEED THE LUXURY CAP ON PAYROLL LEADING TO TAXES BEING DUE
FACT #3. NO LONG RANGE PLAN AS U RECOMMEND HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO WORK SINCE ’02 WILPON OWNERSHIP BUYOUT BECAUSE JEFF USES WFAN AS HIS FAN BARAMOETER. PHILLIPS WITHSTOOD MAKING NUMEROUS DEALS THAT WOULD HAVE SACRIFICED KAZMIR,REYES,WRIGHT AS PART OF HIS “PLAN” TO REBUILD FROM WITHIN. PHILLIPS IS JUSTLY FIRED & INTERIM DUQUETTE IS ORDERED TO ACQUIRE SPing “REGARDLESS OF COST(BENSON,ZAMBRANO DEALS.) BECAUSE NYM FOUND THEMSELVES @.500 IN SECOND PLACE MID JULY,2004 & WFAN WAS BRISTLING WITH CALLS FOR IMPROVED PITCHING TO MAKE A PUSH AS THEY WERE 3GB.
SANE, BETTER TO USE WHAT WE’VE GOT, BUILD AROUND IT AS A FOUNDATION. THE “DEPTH” U CLAIM WAS LACKING, OBVIOUSLY WASN’T WHEN WE SOMEHOW FIELDED 4 SS,4 1B,3 CF, 12 SP & BTW NONE WERE OVER 40. IT MAY NOT BE THE DEPTH U ENVISIONED; BUT I DARE U TO NAME ANY TEAM’S ML CALIBER OPTION AT ANYONE OF THOSE SPOTS. THE 4th SS OR 4th IB, ETC. LOSING BASEBALL U REFER TO? WHERE? LAST I’VE TAKEN MATH WINNING MORE GAMES THAN YOU LOSE IS GENERALLY ACCEPTED AS “WINNING” BASEBALL OR ARE U USING YANKEE MATH THAT DEFINES WINNING BASEBALL AS ONLY WS TITLES? IN MY 47 YRS. THAT’S NOT BEEN THE METS’ MATH; AND I RATHER PREFER THE DIFFERENCE. U MAY NOT HAVE NOTICED; BUT YANKEE MATH USUALLY ENTAILS A 200M+ ENTRANCE FEE THAT NO OTHER BRAND COULD SUSTAIN. THE YANKEE LUXURY TAX PAYMENTS TYPICALLY EXCEED THE #30 ANNUAL PAYROLL IN MLB. CONSIDERING IT’S TAKEN NEARLY 10 YRS JUST TO MAKE A WS APPEARNCE INDICATES A FLAWED FORMULA.
QUESTION FOR ANYONE… WHAT’S THE OVER/UNDER ON GIRARDI CHANGING HIS UNI # IF NYY SHOULD FINALLY GET TO COUNT TO 27 THIS YR? LMAO!
I think the Mets will sign Jason Marquis. Had a solid year and really wants to pitch for us. Sign Holliday,Marquis,Brandon Lyon,Beimel and trade for Napoli. Dont be shocked if the Mets trade away Murphy and go in a different direction at first too.
Murphy after 1 full season had an average major league year. However he has shown signs of being a very good hitter. He hits line drives from foul line to foul line including the gaps and over the outfielders heads. He makes contact with everything he swings at and unfortunatly expanded his swing zone dramatically which hurt his avg and ob but 38 doubles and 12 homeruns is not insignificant especially for a young guy fighting to stay in the majors while trying to learn not 1 but 2 new positions and having the spotlight on him because of a few highlight reel miscues. (he also had a couple of real good plays too) He covers more ground at first then most and has a good quick arm to 2nd on the force. Lots of guys just run to first on that play or let it roll into right field. Can he QUICKLY learn and display the finer points of playing first? No one knows but we do know he is a tireless worker and I wouldn’t bet against him. As for his bat I am on record that given a full year with a healthy team he’ll hit .290 18 HR 90 RBI 50 2B and if Manuel ever gives him the green light on 3-0 those numbers might be low. Not bad for a guy making the minimum. You know we cant have a 10 million dollar player at every position and we certainly cant afford to give away a potential plus player just to overpay for someone else’s 100 plus srikeouts and postage stamp range. We need to see what we have here.
Bravo – I’m with you, except 40 doubles not 50.
Otherwise I agree. I’d love to see him get the shot.
But there has to be a contingency plan if he’s not doing the job.
That’s why I want DeRosa. He can be our everyday 2nd baseman, but could also move to 1st base, especially against lefty pitching.
How does that sound
I think it makes sense. Maybe DeRosa can spell Wright once in a while too.
FUNNY, WITH ALL THE PERMUTATIONS BEING TOSSED AROUND, IT SEEMS NO ONE IS CONSIDERING WE DO NOT HAVE A THUMPER FOR THE CLEANUP SPOT! DOESN’T ANYONE REMEMBER ’05? THE OFFENSE SPUTTERED TOO OFTEN WITHOUT A BONA FIDE CLEANUP HITTER. THAT WAS DELGADFO’S MAIN PURPOSE. REYES,BELTRAN,WRIGHT ARE ARGUABLY BEST AT THEIR 1,3,5 SLOTS. WITH A HOLE @ 4 U HAVE FAILURE.
Dontrelle Willis stinks to high heaven. You cannot bring him in here. Rebuild now. Get a pro GM. Bite the bullet. Face the music. Build your pitching staff back up with intelligent trading. I really do not care what they spend this year. The mets do not spend wisely, they throw money at things and then say “Look how much we spent”. I would love to see a printed, long range plan from these fools. I realize teams do not do that but as far as I am concerned, these bozos are on probation.
Why not just keep Castillo rather than trading him? He had a solid season and Orlando Hudson lost his job to Belliard. Otherwise I agree with your plan except for one major thing, isn’t a #2 starter our main priority? Shouldnt we fix that first, and then see if we have enough for 1B?
It is not ridiculous to think about keeping Castillo. He did have a good year. My preference is for DeRosa. He would be our regular 2nd baseman, but also play 1st base against lefties if Murphy can’t handle that. I think that kills two birds with one stone.
You are right about the #2 starter, but other than Lackey, who is it?
There is no way this team is going to rebuild. Its not like they had their regular lineup and did bad last year. it was all injuries. what you do now is go fix the problems. I doubt we will ever see what happened last year, again. it was rediculous. one guy after the other. so what do u do now?
you cant assume it will or wont happen again. so u build the club as if you had a good season, because they do have a great core here and only a few pieces can make this team have great success for next year and beyond.
firstly, you go after molina because that changes everything about what this team has had. if we have a catcher taht can actually hit, things change. we’ve had schneider, who i loved, but was not very effective when not one other player was doing much offensively.
secondly, address ur power issue. go out and grab holliday who is younger and would be good for this team both defensively and offensively. you’ll have to spend some money, or unless houston wanted to dump the salary and you go get Carlos Lee. I think lee would be a bit better to have in this lineup, but thats just a personal preference.
Thirdly, if ur not going to make a trade for a guy like Adrian Gonzalez, Fielder or even an Adam Dunn. go off and get a guy like Mark Derosa. Give Murphy a veteran presence because murphy looks like he wants to learn and hes willing to put the effort in. so i wouldnt give up on him just yet, hes stil making progress.
Forth, BULLPEN!!!! we obviously still have a great closer, just need a bridge to him. i loved the idea of brandon lyon to put in the eighth inning. if not a guy like chad cordero, if he is in fact healthy, could fit that spot nicely. then go after a lefty like joe beimel. hes really good and you cant let him go by again. he could help save feliciano and add something to this bullpen. with guys like stokes and parnell you can only add to it, because they are very good in the pen.
fifth, the rotation. Lackey wants too much money!! Look to see if you can nab Halladay. i dont think the offers are ridiculous but it could benefit us very well. money wise, toronto doesnt want to deal with it anymore, they arent going to compete next year and they know it. also, you could think of a guy like jason marquis to be behind johan. he had a very good season, in a park thats not so friendly to pitchers. he keeps the ball down and he could also help pelfrey do more of that. we are stuck with oli, but if maine gets healthy, i think he can put another 15 wins somewhere in the lower half of this rotation.
fix the problems? Here are (some of)the problems:
The GM is an idiot
The field manager is an idiot
Razor Shines is an idiot
Jeff Wilpon is an idiot
Beltran’s knees
Reyes hamstring
Wright’s loss of power (not to mention awful defense)
Mike Pelfrey
John Maine
Ollie Perez
Luis Castillo’s range
replacing Putz
Getting a left fielder
Getting two decent starting pitchers
Hoping KMart hasn’t lost it
No decent backups
You say that they will have their lineup back—that is not a given. Wright may never hit homers again. Reyes may get hurt again. Beltran might look like Grandpa McCoy chasing fly balls in the outfield. There are too many uncertainties. The mets plan is to cross their fingers and hope, because if these guys don’t get back to where they were, any FA money they spend now will be wasted. A good GM could get something for some of the uncertainties, cherry pick a smart FA signing or two, and draft well. We might be in the playoffs in a couple of years, once all this stupid money is cleared. But you are right. They will never rebuild.
I agree with everybody’s points, i don’t want to trade for willis, Matt Holliday is not my main priority, but Holliday seems to the the direction there going along with signing a solid innings guy in either Wolf or Marquis, along with bringing putz, i don’t like there plan but that seems the direction there going.
How about Abreu(10mil?), Nick Johnson(6 mil?), Randy Wolf(8mil?), Joe Biemel(2.5mil), Bengie Molina(3.5m)
Lineup: Reyes, Beltran, Abreu, Wright, Johnson, Fraceour, Castillo, Molina?
Rotation-Santana, Wolf, Perez, Pelfrey, Maine
Bullpen-K-rod, Biemel, Parnell, Stokes, Felicano, Mejjia if he is ready….
I like the first 5 guys in that lineup a lot. Rotation-u have 3 LH starters to go vs Philly, bullpen, i think we need that 2nd power lefty in that bullpen and if mejjia is ready u got except for felicano good power arms which u need come playoffs. Just a thought, Abreu and Johnson are 2 very solid players, Molina is a solid C and wolf has struggled in the playoffs but i think he could be alright with this team. I would like Guerrero or one of these big bats like bay or Holliday, i just don’t see it, we have too many needs with this club. for the bench, Santos, Cora i think will be re-signed i just have that feeling, Pagan, Murphy….eh decent start on the bench.
We need Halladay.He is the Most important need.Watching CC pitch last night got me thinking about Santana.Can Johan pitch deep into games,anymore??He gets his pitch count up quickly.I believe we need a true ace,i dont think Johan is that.A guy who can pitch deep into games consistantly like Halladay can.Halladay is also battle tested pitching in the toughest division in baseball and pitching great.Look at his career record against the sox and yanks.We need a true ace.Please get Halladay
Suppose Halladay costs
Fernando
Mejia
Holt
Plus a new contract of $20M/year for 6 years.
Do you still want him?
A few lazy, unresearched, quickly slapped together thoughts for the 2010 team…
LINEUP
SS-Reyes
2B-Castillo
1B-Wright
CF-Beltran
RF-Francoeur
LF-Randy Winn
3B-Chone Figgins
C-Santos/Thole platoon
BENCH
OF-Pagan, Endy Chavez
IF-Alex Cora, Mark Loretta, Craig Counsell
STARTERS
Santana
Jason Marquis
Randy Wolf
Maine
Perez
BULLPEN
K-Rod-closer
Feliciano-setup/lefty specialist
Stokes-setup/righty specialist
Scott Eyre
Dessens
Pelfry-long relief
I like Figgins but i wouldnt move Wright to 1st.Figgins can play left.But the Mets need better a sa #2 starter.ID rather have Maine as my 8th inning set up guy then have Pelfrey in long relief.Pelfrey is still maturing,1 step forward 2 steps back.
STEVE, MAINE IN RELIEF? BACK-2-BACK APPEARANCES? PELFREY’S PROBLEM, IN MY OPINION, IS TOO MANY MAKEOVERS. HE WAS DRAFTED AS A POWER PITCHER OUT OF COLLEGE; REMADE INTO A CONTACT SINKERBALLER UNDER PETERSON. RETURNING TO POWER ROOTS BY WARTHEN. RESULTS: CONFUSION.
PELF IS BETTER, IN MY OPINION, AS A POWER PITCHER WITH AN OCCASIONAL SINKER. TOO MANY TIMES LAST YR HE ATTEMPTED TO POWER HIS WAY OUT OF SITUATIONS WITH BIG HITTERS INSTEAD OF FLIPPING UP HIS SINKER TO BE ANTKILLER. AS HE MATURES & USES ALL HIS WEAPONS PROPERLY, HE’LL FINALLY PRODUCE PROMISED RESULTS AS AN ESTABLISHED ROTATIONAL PITCHER. HE IS MOST IN NEED OF AN EXPERIENCED CATCHER FAMILIAR WITH HIS ENTIRE REPETOIRE OF 2-SEAM,4-SEAM,SLIDER,CURVE,SINKER,CHANGE. LAST YR HE REPLACED HIS SINKER WITH THE FB HIS SLIDER WITH HIS CURVE. INSTEAD OF REPLACEMENTS THEY SHOULD’VE BEEN ADDITIONS & ANOTHER STABILITY YR UNDER SAME COACH SHOULD BENEFIT HIM. MUCH THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF MAINE; BUT LESS SO SINCE MAINE’S HAD LITTLE HEALTHY EXPOSURE TO WARTHEN. WE ARE EXPERIENCING A STATE OF FLUX NORMAL WITH YOUNG INEXPERIENCED PITCHERS UNDER NEW COACH TUTELEDGE.
MAINE & PRLFREY WERE BOTH PRIME PETERSONITES & AS SUCH I’D GIVE RICK AN OPPORTUNITY AT REVIVING HIS “10 MIN FIX” SPEECH BY OFFERING BOTH TO BREWS FOR FIELDER(A ‘MUST’ TRADE) PLAYER.
TD, YOUR HASTE DULY NOTED; CONSIDER THIS: EYRE’S GOT BUM ELBOW ISSUE
ENDY’S CRIPPLED UP WITH POTENTIAL CAREER ENDING LEG INJURY.
FROM A BENCH PERSPECTIVE, I THINK I’D LIKE TO SEE NICE PARTING GIFTS GIVEN TO CORA & TATIS WITH YOUNGER INEXPENSIVE BENCH DESERVING A-HERN & MURPHY AS THEIR REPLACEMENTS IN INFIELD WITH A-HERN MIDDLE, MURPH CORNERS & PAGAN IN #4 OUTFIELD POSITION ANOTHER NICE ADDITION IF AVAILABLE FOR BENCH MONEY WOULD BE DeROSA OR HAIRSTON (IF NYY DON’T RETAIN)
I’D LOVE TO SEE WHAT BOSTICK CAN OFFER OUT OF PEN THIS SPRING AS MY REPLACEMENT FOR EYRE TO YOUR THOUGHTS ON PEN (EARLY LOOGEY OPTION)
METS62FAN, I agree with you about the Phils and the Braves-we aren’t keeping up with them for the next few years, which is why I was trying to think of useful players we could sign to short term deals that wouldn’t break the bank while the kids play and learn in the minors. Didn’t know about Endy or Eyre. I just knew that Eyre is really effective at stranding inherited runners and he’s tough on leftys and hey, I’d like a healthy Endy on our bench.
My thinking re Pelfry in long relief is that they can get him ready for a more important position (set-up?) in low pressure situations until he’s ready. I’m with you on Bostick, he deserves a chance in Spring training.
As for Tatis and anyone else I left off, they can go to AAA and help the Bison. Moo!
TD, A BIT OF CAUTION ON YOUR ANTICIPATION OF UTILIZING/DEVELOPING “THE KIDS” CONSIDERING THE METS HAVEN’T DRAFTED A TRUE FIRSTROUNDER SINCE ’05(PELFREY) AND OMAR INHERITED A BARREN SYSTEM WHOSE LONE PROSPECT WAS THE FALLEN LASTINGS MILLEDGE. THE OPORTUNITIES OF SEEING ANY IMPACTFUL PRESENCE FROM “KIDS” ARE VERY,VERY FEW. IT’S MAINLY THE ISSUE I SEE WITH THE MURPHY,EVANS DISAPPOINTMENTS. I FEAR TOO MANY OF “THE KIDS” WILL BE TRUE ‘PETER PRINIPLE’ RESULTS. FOR THOSE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT PRINCPLE IT DEFINES SOMEONE WHO’S PROMOTED TO THEIR HIGHEST LEVEL OF INCOMPETANCY. aka AAAA PLAYERS.
THOSE DRAFTEES WE’VE FAST-TRACKED ARE CERTAINLY GOING TO CONTINUE THE THEME OF FAILED FUNDIES WE’VE SEEN SO MUCH OF. IT ONLY STANDS TO REASON THAT IF U START WITH LESS THAN OPTIMUM TALENT, COOK IT LESS THAN REQUIRED STANDARD TIME, THE RESULT WILL BE UNPALATABLE & RENDER GROSS INDIGESTION.
I do it in a heart beat.All do respect for those 3 they havent proved anything yet.Remember Halladay is signed for next year at 15 mill.So an extension of say 3 years 60 million is doable.We can have a shut down ace for 4 years at 75 mill.Who knows if Holt can pitch in AA.Meija is struggling in Arizona.Fernando is always hurt.The jays might not even want those 3.How about Bowman a Canadian 3rd baseman,Tejada, they need a SS.What if they take less and the Mets have to take Vernan Wells.
Halladay and Wells to New York
Bowman,Tejada,Holt,FMart,Mejia to Toronto.
I would think this is a possibility both teams would benefit.
Toronto would get cap space plus 3rd & ss for the future.a cf plus 2 quality arms. The Mets would get a true ace who can go deep into games against the stiffest competition.Plus a Cf if Beltran is hurt or needs a rest.ANd we have a left fielder.
You are right. It would take more than Holt, Mejia, and Fernando to get Halladay. But, Vernon Wells is a NO NO. You can’t take him ever. His numbers are horrible. He obviously was on steroids. His contract is the worst in baseball. He’s got 5 years left at around $18M/year.
If you took Wells, you could probably have Holliday for next to nothing.
U make good and interesting point, if someone takes Wells u probably get Halliday for a decent price, signing Figs to play 3b and moving Wright to 1b is tempting……I am sick of Wright’s bad throws. I mean getting wells is like getting HOlliday for almost the same price tag and the difference is in 2 yrs, Wells could play CF if Beltran departs.
STEVE, I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH MOST THAT ROY HALLADAY IS THE BEST POTENTIALLY AVAILABLE SP ON MKT; BUT I DIFFER FROM MOST IN THINKING HE MAY NOT BE THE BEST AVAILABLE SOLUTION TO OUR #2 SP NEED. FOR THAT JOB I’D PREFER LACKEY. NO MATTER WHAT HALLADAY WILL REQUIRE DEALING YOUTH JUST TO TALK WITH HIM. THEN WHAT? IF HE DEMANDS CC/JOHAN LEVEL? AJ LEVEL? NOT MATTER WHICH. IT’S A DEFINITE HE’LL REQUIRE CONTINUATION OF HIS “NO-TRADE” PROTECTION THUS SADDLING US WITH 3 HUGE UNTRADABLE CONTRACTS IN BELTRAN,JOHAN & ‘DOC’ SIMPLY PUT, MY ‘MUDT HAVE’ TRADE IS 2 SP FOR FIELDER(POSSIBLY 2 OF PELFREY,MAINE,NIESE) SGNING LACKEY AS #2 & MARQUIS AS #3. NOTE:
LACKEY REP’D BY JOE URBAN
MARQUIS REP’D BY LEVINSON BROS.
WE’D GET TO KEEP OUR FIRSTBORNS! LOL
you just can’t take Wells too. He’s a bad player with a huge salary – for 5 years.
Hey u want Halliday and not get killed on the price, u take Wells, Holliday is a worse fielder then Wells, ur paying Holliday almost the same thing. Although I admit I don’t think I would take Wells either. And I did read somewhere that the mets were talking about trading mid-level prospects for overpriced assets, i think Wells qualifies.
ANTHONY, MORE I THINK ON IT THE MORE I BELIEVE “THE DAYS”(HOLLIDAY & HALLADAY) WOULD BE “THE DAYS OF OUR DEMISE” NOT “DAYS OF OUR LIVES” AS SOME BELIEVE. EITHER WAY IS A SOAP OPERA!
FIRST, LET’S ASSUME THEY CAN ACTUALLY PULL OFF A TRADE FOR HALLADAY, THEY’D BE IN THE TOUGH NEGOTIATING POSITION OF HAVING ALREADY DEALT ASSETS JUST TO TALK WITH HIM, THUS ELIMINATING “THE WALK AWAY” OPTION IF DEMANDS GREW TOO STEEP. HALLADAY REPORTEDLY WANTS CC/JOHAN CONTRACT, EVEN IF HE’LL ACCEPT A LESSER AJ SIZE HE’D OBVIOUSLY STILL DEMAND A CONTINUANCE OF HIS ‘NOTRADE’ PROTECTION THUS SADDLING US WITH 3 HUGE UNTRADABLE CONTRACTS IN BELTRAN,JOHAN & HALLADAY. CAN U SAY HANDCUFFED OR HAMSTRUNG? WITH BORAS REPING HOLLIDAY, THE PEREZ DEAL MAY SONMEDAY BE LOOKED AT IN A POSITIVE LIGHT. I UNDERSTAND SCOTT’S ALREADY CREATED THE DOSIER COMPARING MATT HOLLIDAY TO MARK TIEZEIRA(20M/. I’M ALREADY ECSTATIC HE PREFERS THE BRONX.
I would give the farm away to get Gonzalez – great glove, excellent power, and still young. Let the Padres name their price. The Mets always overvalue their prospects. I’ve been a fan for 40 years and can count on one hand the number of prospects that became true stars. The odds say that among all of the Mets’ prospects there may be 1 that will become a star – and that is probably not likely. If we can convince the Padres to take a package of prospects and say Pelfrey and Murphy, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would then be satisfied with Pagan in left as long as someone teaches him to run the bases or to throw to the right base. I would then throw money at Lackey and maybe a solid #3 such as Wolfe or Marquis. I would sign a solid defensive catcher as Thole is clearly not ready. Finally,I would make Dave Duncan an offer he can’t refuse.
KEVIN, WHAT CREDIBLE REASON MAKES U BELIEVE GONZALES IS ACTUALL AVAILABLE AT ANY PRICE? THAT STATEMENT IS AS CREDIBLE AS ANOTHER TEAM’S FAN OPINING TO ACQUIRE D.WRIGHT. GONZALES, AS U SAY, IS YOUNG & TALENTED; BUT AS U IGNORE HE’S A LOCAL TALENT,CHEAP & UNDER CONTRACT AS NOTED HERE:
Adrian Gonzalez 1b
4 years/$9.5M (2007-10), plus 2011 club option
4 years/$9.5M (2007-10), plus 2011 club option
signed extension with San Diego 4/07, replacing 1 year/$0.3805M contract which had been renewed 3/07
$0.5M signing bonus
07:$0.5M, 08:$0.75M, 09:$3M, 10:$4.75M, 11:$5.5M club option (no buyout)
award bonuses: $50,000 for Gold Glove, $25,000 for All Star selection
2008 All Star selection increased price of 2011 club option to $5.6M
1 year/$0.3275M (2006)
re-signed by San Diego 2/06
1 year/$0.316M (2005)
re-signed by San Diego 2/05 (split contract, $76,400 in minors)
drafted 2000 (1-1)
$3M signing bonus
agent: John Boggs
ML service: 3.108
You think The Brewers would take the likes of Pelfrey, Maine or (yes you actually suggested this) Pat Misch, but you think my suggestion that the Mets at least explore the possibility of looking into Gonzalez is totally lacking in credibility? My suggestion didn’t mean that it was a no brainer that it could be done, rather that it was worth exploring. You have got to be on the pipe if you think we could acquire Fielder for what you suggested. I would tone down the sarcasm until your suggestions actually become as superior as you believe them to be.
KEVIN, GET OUT OF NY BUBBLE, LOOK AT BREWERS CURRENT ROTATION. PELFREY & MAINE INSTANTLY ARE THEIR 2 BEST IF LOOPER LEAVES AS EXPECTED! WHAT DID U THINK OF ZAMBRANO? BETTER OR WORSE THAN PELFREY OR MAINE? PETERSON IS THER NEW 10MIN FIXIT MAN.
YOU MUST CONSIDER EVERYTHING. GONZALEZ? THERE’S NO NEED FOR PODS TO MOVE HIM. FIELDER, MAKES DOUBLE GONZALES MONEY NOW & LIKELY QUADRUPLE IN ’11. LOGIC. U FALL INTO THE SAME TRAP AS MANY OTHERES U LOOK AT B&W STATS ON A PAGE, SEE A PLAYER PERFORM IN MAYBE 1 OR 2 G/SEASON & PROCLAIM HIM GOOD TO GO. YOU SEE ANOTHER PLAYER FOR 30G/SEASON HIS UPS & DOWNS & PEROCLAIM HIM CRAP! START VIEWING OUR PLAYERS BY OUTSIDER EYES, I HEAR/WATCH MANY INASEASON GAMES ON OPPOSITION BROADCASTS AS THEY CONTROL MY GEOGRAPHY(NC), REDS,NATS,BRAVES AND GET TO HEAR THEIR HOMER ANNOUNCERS EXTOL OUR SAME PLAYERS WHO ARE DEMEANED BY NYPRESS. NY CRITICISM CONSIDERED A WORTHLESS “JOKE” TO THOSE EXPERTS OUTSIDE NY.
Lackey and his agent will take one look at Ollie’s contract and ask the mets for 20 mil. He is worth nowhere near that, of course. He will not be coming here. It is hard to gauge how damaging the Perez contract has been to future negotiations with FAs but I think it has probably cost the Won’tpons big time, much more than they are actually paying that stiff. Even if you don’t pay some stiff like Marquis 12 mil, he will get you to jack up his price because you are overpaying for Bozo the clown. I would like them to get Duncan in here, though, in the same vein, why would Duncan come here to work for a Blam-throwing bum like Manuel. The mets management practices have made working here very unpalatable for outsiders. And I think Gonzalez is great, but why overpay? We ar enot going anywhere. Make a reasonable deal or pass.
J-DON, WHILE IT’S A MATTER OF OPINION, I BELIEVE MARQUIS IS WORTH AT MOST A 3/36 OFFER & WOULD LOVE YO SEE HIM INKED FOR 3/30 LAST TIME I LOOKED IN SEPT. HIS CAREER NUMBERS WERE QUITE COMMISERATE WITH LACKEY’S. WHAT I PARTICULARLY LIKED WAS HIS WINNING RECORDS IN PITCHING HELLHOLES CHICAGO, COLORADO, & FORMER FULTON COUNTY STADIUM(aka “THE LAUNCHING PAD”) I CAN JUST IMAGINE HIS IMPROVEMENT WITHIN THE VAST CONFINES OF CITI. THE 10 CONSECUTIVE SEASONS PITCHING IN PLAYOFFS IS CERTAINLY VALUE IMPRESSIVE IF FOR NOTHING MORE THAN A GOOD LUCK CHARM.
U REALLY NEED TO CLIMB OFF THE LEDGE & REALIZE THE PRESENT OWNERSHIP IS TOO FREE SPENDING FOR MLB’s LIKING & THUS ANY “APPROVED” NEW OWNERSHIP WOULD HAVE TO BE MORE IN LINE WITH THEIR PARITY PLAN. BETTER U LEARN TO APPRECIATE WE’RE NO WHERE NEAR AS BAD OFF AS FORKER POWERHOUSE FRANCHISES LIKE PIRATES(28),REDS(23),ROYALS(20),BRAVES(12). SOMETIMES IT’S A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE THE() NUMBERS REPRESENT THEIR REPECTIVE PAYROLL POSITION IN ’09 OUT OF 30 FRANCHISES.
SOME SAY THERE’S NO CORRELATION BET PAYROLL & PLAYOFFS; BUT IS IT COINCIDENTAL THAT ONLY 2(COL & MINN) OF THIS YEARS 8 PLAYOFF FRANCHISES WERE OUT OF THE UPPER THIRD aka TOP 10? OUR POSITION AS #1 IN NL HAS BEEN A CONSTANT FOR OVER 7 YRS.
I think the whole mets organization is a poisoned tree. It needs to be cut down. I am not naive enough to think that the Won’tpons will sell, but I think they should look up a guy like Pat Gillick. Now he won’t work for us, and he might tell us to screw off, but he is an old timer and a lot of them are gentlemen, so he might be able to recommend someone. The Wilpons are incapable of making a sound decision. They certainly could not ask a doofus like Bud Selig for a recommendation. But once they do find a suitable candidate, they have to remove themselves from the mix. That means Jeffie has to pick up his ball and go home. Anything short of this spells doom for this franchise. Tacking on FAs is like adding another layer of roof to your house.It just delays the inevitable. The Phillies’ 3 best players are organization-produced. They were smart enough to get a Jason Werth and a Feliz when NOBODY wanted them. Theyhad the tools to make an in-season move for Cliff Lee because of their drafting acumen. They drafted Hamels and Happ. They even got something out of Pedro by bringing him in for a third of the season, instead of hoping he could perform for an entire one. And I know Gillick is a consultant now but Amaro has picked up where Gillick left off-because the plan and the philosophy were sound and were left in place.
JDON, UNFORTUNATLY U ASSUME PAPA FRED HAS ANY INTENTION OF TAKING AWAY SON #2′s TOY AND HE JUDGES SUCCESS THE SAME WAY U DO. PERSONALLY, I BELIEVE, HE IS MUCH LESS TRAUMATIZED BY “THE COLLAPSES” RATHER HE SEES THEM FOR WHAT THEY REALLY ARE 2 SECOND PLACE FINISHES WITH WINNING RECORDS AND A FULFILLMENT OF HIS PROMISED MEANINGFUL GAMES IN SEPTEMBER. THEY CERTAINLY WERE MEANINGFUL.
WHILE, I’VE CERTAINLY BEEN VERY CRITICAL OF OUR OWNERSHIP & SUSPICOUS OF JEFF’S MOTIVATIONS. I CERTAINLY DON’T ENVY THE PLIGHTS OF FORMER MLB POWERHOUSE FRANCHISES WHO HAVE ADOPTED A “BUILD FROM WITHIN SCHEME” IN PITTSBURGH,CINCINNATI,KANSAS CITY, AND ATLANTA. I SEE TWO FACTORS AS OUR MAJOR HINDRANCES FROM OWNERSHIP. 1) BLIND REFUSAL TO INCUR LUXURY TAXES & 2) BLIND ADHEREANCE TO SLOT GUIDELINES.
SO MUCH FOR OWNERSHIP ISSUES, WE FANS HAVE MANY OF OUR OWN; 1)LACK OF TOLERANCE/PATIENCE, 2)INCONSISTANCY,3) NY BUBBLE SYNDROME, 4)ABJECT PESSIMISM, 5) JUDGING 162 SEASONS/YR. 6) LACK OF HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, 7)POOR JUDGEMENT/LNEE JERKING
FOR EXAMPLE, IF PHL IS A BETTER RUN FRANCHISE HISTORICALLY & NOT JUST PAST FEW YEARS, HOW DO U EXPLAIN THE COMPARATIVE RESULTS OVER THE PAST 25 YEARS?
BY DECADE:
80s PHL 454-516; NYM 575-395
90s PHL 731-813; NYM 767-766
00s PHL 936-768; NYM 995-803
OVER THE PAST 25 YRS PHL AMASSED 6 LAST PLACES & 4 FIRSTS COMPARED TO 3 LASTS & 3 FIRSTS IN NY.
ALSO IN PAST 25 YRS PHL MADE PLAYOFFS 4X, NY 5X EACH GARNERING 1 WS TITLE.
WHY IS THIS GERMANE? ISN’T DRAFT POSITIONS ALLOCATED BY REVERSE ORDER OF FINISHES? THESE STASTEMENTS/FACTS NOT ONLY HIGHLIGHT MY CRITICISM OF FANS’ HISTORICAL PERCEPTION; BUT ALSO THE NY BUBBLE SYNDROME.