In a move that comes as no surprise to me, the Mets may get their off season started by locking up their new wonder boy, Jeff Francoeur to a three-year deal according to a report by Marty Noble.
The Mets believe Francoeur will look sharp in their 2010 uni, so much so that they are inclined to approach him about signing him to a three-year contract that would allow him to become a big league Beau Brummel, if he so chose. They like what they have seen of him in and out of uniform — from his spirited demeanor to his nuclear arm to the two doubles he produced Saturday afternoon in their victory against the Nationals.
Francoeur has been the lone bright spot for the Mets in the second half as he continues to sizzle at the plate. He came through again in yesterday’s win over the Nationals with two more doubles, an RBI and two runs scored.
Noble correctly states that signing Francoeur for the next few seasons would stabilize two-thirds of the outfield and five-eighths of the starting lineup for next season. His presence on the team has reduced Ryan Church to just a blur.
Francoeur loves his new home and is thrilled to be playing in the spotlight of baseball’s grandest stage, New York City.
Francoeur now has batted .314 with the Mets and driven in 34 runs while scoring 30 in 63 games.
He’s as gritty and as driven as they come, and as Jerry Manuel said “This kid hates to lose.”
After making the final out in Friday nights loss, he reacted by smashing a dugout cooler to pieces in a show of rage.
“I think I can bring something here,” he said Saturday. “I’m not David Wright or Carlos Beltran, but what I can do is play hard and, I think, have some positive effect on the guys around me.”
Jerry Manuel said something I’ve been saying since the day he first became a Met. He talked about Francoeur’s intangibles – you know, those things that don’t show up in the box scores.
“If you were to talk intangibles,” Jerry Manuel said, “he’d rate way off the charts.”
Francoeur is a warrior that wants to play every inning of every game, and even the torn ligaments in his thumb won’t keep him out of the lineup. The best part is that at 25 years old, the best is yet to come.
We have a lot of work to do this off season, but signing Francoeur to a multi year deal is definitely a huge first step.
*Mets Merized Online Needs Your Help*
terrible, incredibly terrible decision. francoeur is a powerful force for losing. he is historically bad. his OBP this season is 308. he is literally one of the worst full time right fielders in the history of baseball. his one skill is convincing managers and GMs to keep him.
“intangibles”? you have got to be kidding me. does making outs at a historic pace count as an intangible?
if you want to lose, one of the best decisions you could make is to play francoeur. any replacement player is a HUGE upgrade. if the mets sign francouer, they are taking a huge step towards making certain they cannot make the playoffs. again, he isnt just bad, he is record-breaking, historically bad.
What are you from the planet Mars??? You obviously know nothing about baseball dude.
again, francoeur is literally one of the worst players ever to play regularly. this cant really be disputed. he makes outs at an unprecedented pace for a RF. any random AAAA RF is a HUGE upgrade.
do you realize that he is an out-making machine? opposing pitchers love to see him come up with men on base. he will make an out almost 70% of the time!
the best possible thing he can do for a team is get hurt and not play. the mets would better off to not sign him and throw double his salary into a river.
Do you even watch the Mets games, or are you a bandwagon fan that stopped watching in June? You are litterally talking like you are under the influence of some pretty bad shit (or good shit). Seriously, dont comment back until you actually look at the fact he has 400 RBIs before his 26th birthday. Name me 89 other outfielder that have done that, being he is the worst outfielder among the 90 current outfielders. You know what, I’ll make it easy on you, give me 20 names of current outfielders who have 400 RBI’s at age 25.
RBI is not a stat that matters relative to OPS. his career OPS+ is well under 100, which means he is far far worse than average. again, any number of random minor leaguers making zero dollars would be a HUGE upgrade.
now pay attention. frnchy isnt just bad. he is historically, fantastically bad. he is as dmaging to a team as he could possibly be, because he plays so much, so poorly.
do you know what outs are? they are bad. JF makes them at a record pace. that is bad.
Martin said “he will make an out almost 70% of the time!”
That means he would be hitting over .300 !
he could make an out 70% of the time and still be batting .000, dumbass. ever heard of walks? neither has frenchy.
You’ll never convince him Barry, He’s a saber guy. They dont take in games like we do, they only read boxscores and analyze stats with their scientific calculators. Thats the new generation of fans for you. No love of the game or its traditions, just number crunching.
That would mean he is batting .700 at least lol
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
MARTIN THE MORE U RESPOND THE INCREDIBLY DUMBER YOU APPEAR. BTW THE HOF IS CHOCK FULL OF GUYS WHO MADE OUTS 70% OF THE TIME THROUGHOUT A MLB CAREER. DUDE, THAT’S A LIFETIME .300 BA. LIKE IT OR NOT, JEFF FRANCOUER IS THE BIGGEST OFFENSIVE FORCE ON THIS TEAM ‘S ACTIVE ROSTER AT THIS TIME. NO, HE’S NOT A ‘STAR’; BUT OUR TRUE ‘STARS’ AREN’T CAPABLE OF GETTING THE JOB DONE ON THEIR OWN, NEITHER IS ANY OTHER TEAM’S TRY ASKING YOURSELF WHERE J-ROLL,HOWARD,UTLEY WOULDS BE WITHOUT VICTORINO, WERTH, FELIZE? GOLFING INSTEAD OF US THE PAST COUPLE OF YRS. THINK OF FRENCHY AS OUR JASON WERTH, THE GUY THAT BEATS U WHEN THE SUPERSTARS MAKE OUTS. U KNOW THE TYPE, WE USED TO CALL THEM ‘NAILS’, ‘DIRT’, ‘MOOK’, ETC. THE FILLER GUYS AROUND THE STARS, THE NECESARY MORTAR BETWEEN THE FOUNDATION’S BRICKS. THE SIMPLE FACT OF THE MATTER HAS BEEN OMAR HAS FAILED TO SECURE THE PROPER MORTAR UNTIL NOW. THIS YR’S HIS BEST OPORTUNITY FROM ‘06 THRU ‘09 OUR “CORE” OF STUD PLAYERS HAS REMAINED THE SAME WHICH WHEN HEALTHY HAS RESULTED IN THE BEST RECORD THROUGHOUT 5 MOS OF A 6 MOS SEASON. YOU WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO COMPILE A BETTER GROUP TO MAN THOSE KEY POSITIONS. IF THERE ARE FEWER BETTER THAN WE’VE GOT IN THE CORE THAN THE PROBLEM HAS TO BE SURROUNDING THAT CORE. WE NEED MORE FRENCHY TYPES NOT LESS. I’D RANK THE CHURCH-FRANCOEUR DEAL AS OMAR’S BEST TO DATE OFFENSIVLY SPEAKING(EXCL SANTANA ACQUISITION).
Outstanding rebuttal my friend. It’s good to see that common sense and baseball intellect is alive and well on this site.
please pay attention. if you make outs 70 percent of the time, it does not mean you are batting 300. it means your on base percentage is .300, which is terrible. why is that difficult to understand?
yo wtf making outs 70% of the time means you have a 300 obp not a 300 avg. once again, all credibility of your statements is lost in your first few sentences.
martin i got your back
your an idiot martin! have you not watched the Mets since july?! hes still hitting like crazy with a torn ligament, while not complaining and playing everyday! go learn something about baseball martin!
Yo Martin is making a valid point in a terrible, unconvincing way.
.300-.330 obp guys are not what you want to lock up on three year deals.
Finally, some good news! I love this guy and right now he’s the team MVP. I cant believe he’s only 25, what the hell were the Braves thinking??? Can you say TOASTED!
Solid move by the Mets. Now if we can only find a decent leftfielder with some power to complete the outfield. Imagine an outfield of Jason Bay, Carlos Beltran and Jeff Francoeur? That would be impressive and could produce 350 runs and 350 RBI’s. If we get Bay, we can then find a righty platoon partner for Murphy at first base.
martin, RBI was the second hitting statistic that was adopted and followed by MLB at the turn of the century, the first being batting average. All of a sudden we’re going to throw away a 100 years of history because Bill James says so?
The unholy trinity – Bill James – Scott Boras – Donald Fehr
not because bill james says so. because things called “math” and “reality” says so.
again, signing frenchy is a huge step towards making the mets a joke team.
The only reason the team has any fight right now is because of him. He has 5 3-hit games in his last 8 starts. If you hate the guy, just say so, but dont smear him. What kind of a Met fan are you?
Martin, walks are not at-bats. If someone makes out 70% of the “time”, then the rest of their “time” has to be at-bats that are hits; and they’re batting .300
The saying “70% of the time” would not mean “plate appearances” to anyone who watches the game.
You’re pretty quick with the name-calling, and not worth trying to have an intelligent conversation with.
again, what i said was 100% right. and what you are saying is stupid and not relevant. clearly plate appearances are what i mean when i say you are making an out 70% of the time. if a guy has 3 walks and a strikeout in a game, you dont say he was out 100% of the time because the walks dont count as at bats. that would be incredibly stupid.
Marty…calm yo asss downn
Listen genius, batting average is a measure of hits–it purposely EXCLUDES walks. A guy with three walks and a strikeout in a game is batting .000 because the walks don’t count.
It’s obvious by your language you’re a mental midget, but just try to grasp the concept.
are you arguing against your own point? dont you see how the walks are a good thing and the .000 average in our example is misleading? please make an effort. use your head.
So you want Ryan Church instead? Give me a break man.
ryan church is a far more productive offensive player, yes.
Martin and Matt are completely right. I can’t believe what fans are saying. Continue to ignore sabermetrics and you will continue to fall behind every year. Atlanta dumped this guy for a reason. He has been among the worst every day players in baseball for the last 3 years.
One more thing. Everybody from Johan, Manuel, Wright, Beltran and Schneider have raved about him. Read all the quotes in the daily news the last two days. Why would they do that if he sucks as bad as you say? Why should we take the word of wannabe fans over star players who have nothing but good things to say about him? You think Wright, Johan, Beltran and Manuel give two shits about your so-called math? They dont!
i am sure he is a perfect gentleman and i would say nice things about him as well if i were his teammate. and he has played better than his career average for the short time he has been here.
players dont throw each other under the bus in interviews with the media. and subjective opinions from friends do not trump reality.
Why all the animosity toward Francoeur? I didnt know much about him until he joined the Mets, but he has been impressive since he got here. I look at all these so called top prospects the Mets keep bringing up, and I wish just one of them could do what Francouer has these last three months. I dont think he’ll be a huge star, but he looks like a solid rightfielder. We dont have to have an all star at every position. We won a world series with Ron Swoboda in rightfield, I think we’ll be fine with Francoeur.
Obviously this guy is a fantasy babseball dweeb . Francoure is the grit and heart that the Mets have been missing since lo duca left the team. Signing him is a great move.
special olympians have lots of grit and determination. it doesnt mean you should play them in a major league right field.
Martin do u watch the mets? U keep talking about Francoeur walking he only has 21 walks in 546 at bats and he’s batting .280 so we can give u one stat right he makes out 70% of the time but 3 hits out of 10 at bats is a nice stat in major league baseball.
Francoeur has certainy contributed to the Mets during the time he has been here. A 3 year contract may be a stretch for a player who is reasonably solid but not a star. I think he bring 2 questions: 1. how will his surgery turn out? and 2. can he learn to stop swinging at sucker pitches off the plate for the third strike in critical situations? He is a nice mid-range performer, but I would hold off on the 3 yr deal until the surgery is complete and the outcome is known. He also needs to become more selective at the plate and reduce the bad K’s. If he can do that, then he can become a very good player instead of just a good player. In the Mets current state, they clearly need to retain Francoeur, but not necessarily with a 3 yr guarantee. I would hold the contract to 2 yrs and be pretty confident that would be good enough for now.
The sabermetricians need to calm down and express their opinions calmly while respecting the opinions of others and get off their high horse.
MASK, THE ISSUE OF THE 3 YR CONTRACT IS ARBITRATION ELIMINATION. IN MOST CASES, AS WAS DONE WITTH REYES & WRIGHT THE CLUB USUALLY MAKES OUT IN THESE DEALS SINCE ARBITRATION HEARINGS TEND TO FAVOR THE PLAYER NOT THE EMPLOYER. JUDGING A 25 YR OLD PLAYER’S CAREER BY HIS PRE-25 ACCOMPLISHMENTS IS LUDICROUS AT BEST. ATLANTA FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS HAS BEEN PITCHING RELIANT & STRETCHING FOR THE MOST OFFENSE IT CAN GET, MUCH LIKE THIS NYM REPLACEMENT SQUAD; BUT I BELIEVE THE REG FULL ROSTER WILL ALLEVIATE FRANCOEUR FROM THE PRESSURES OF FEELING “HE MUST DO IT SINCE NO ONE ELSE CAN” ALREADY I’VE SEEN A BETTER APPROACH AT THE PLATE, THE DIFFERENCE WAS EVIDFENT TO THE BRAVES ANNOUNCERS IN THE LAST SERIES. WHERE HE DIDN’T OFFER AT SPECIFIC OFF-THE-PLATE TEMPTATIONS IN CRUCIAL SITUATUIONS. YOU REALLY NEED TO START WATCHING SOME GAMES ON OPPOSITION’S BROADCAST CHANNELS WHEN YOU CAN, CERTAINLY HAVING TO PUT UP WITH ROB ‘DRIVEL’S’ GNATS COMMENTARY THIS WEEKEND WAS ENOUGH PENANCE TO SECURE A TON OF CRED FOR ME LATER ON. HE’S ABSOLUTLY THE WORST OF ALL I’VE BEEN SUBJECTED TO. FORTUNATLY MASN BROADCASTS HAVE VERY FEW SHOTS INTO THE BOOTH FOR I’M CONVINCED THERE ARE TIMES DIBBLE’S WEARING A SHORT SKIRT & WAVING HIS POM=POMS WHILE DOING SPLITS.LMAO!
I don;t think the arbitration issue is strong enough to kick it over to 3 years. He is no Wright or Reyes under any set of circumstances. The 3 yr contract and the objective of eliinating arbitraton assumes that he will demonstrate vast improvement over the next 2 years and become an elite player. I think the odds of that happening are very short. If he needs to be replaced because we lose him, that can be done with talent coming up from the farm over the next couple years. No need to go for 3 years for this guy in my opinion.
There is nothing wrong with the Mets buying Francoeurs arbitration years and one year of his free agency. All of the top GM’s do this because in the long run it saves money. Francoeur has shown more potential than most players his age and is worth the risk and investment.
Is there any urgency to do that prior to knowing the outcome of his surgery?
MASK, THE SURGERY REQUIRED IS AS NO-BRAINER/CONSEQUENCE AS IT GETS. SEE CORA’S NONCHALANCE? HE’S HAVING 2 OF THEM. BACK IN THE DAY THERE WERE PLAYERS GOING THEIR WHOLE CAREERS IN THE DISCOMFORT WHILE BEING PRODUCTIVE.
Sorry, but I believe there is no surgery that is routine. Every cut into flesh and bone bring with it a risk. I wouldn’t sign anyone to a 3 yr contract who is going under the knife.
Keep Francoeur. Don’t let him slip away.
Martin, it’s a shame you were never exposed to baseball in the 50’s and 60’s like myself. I feel bad for all these post 80’s fans who never got a chance to see a game without the brash loud announcing and reducing every aspect of the game to a microcosm. My generation ushered in the Golden Age of baseball, sadly that legacy has ended. Todays new fans have replaced the games heroes with replacement players. Pretend players that they aspire to. It sounds like the plot to a creepy sci-fi film, and not coincidentally it’s exactly those types who have permeated the greatness of the game with their make believe players and their concocted formulas.
Signing Frenchy was good start, now lets get Matt Holliday and John Lackey.
good news. Francoeur has been great as a Met, and if we’re going to compete next year, we need him.
Martin, we all understand what OBP is and nobody is knocking it, where you err is that to you it’s the end-all in deciding how good or bad a player is. It’s a very shortsighted way too judge players, and luckily no legitimate GM does it, only a few sports journalists and it dont matter what they say anyway.
You should try remembering that part of the process of deciding what makes a good ballplayer are those things which you seem to ignore. Pride, determination, drive, competitiveness, clutchness and heart are all human emotions that most fans connect with and can easily identify. Too many people choose to ignore their own human traits and judge people like bean counters judge profit margins.
A scout one said of Pete Rose, “he can’t throw, run or hit, and will probably never make it to the Majors.”
That scout forgot about all those intangibles you seem to disregard as well.
If there weren’t lesser players like Thompson, Dent, Agee, etc. you wouldn’t have the underdogs that suddenly become unlikely heroes and make this game great.
you are correct that some gms do not care enough about proper stats. the losers. the good ones do. beane, ricciardi, coletti, these folks care alot about OBP and OPS+. do you know what OPS+ is and why it matters? are you aware that frenchy has a career OPS+ that is under 100. do you understand what that means? i can explain it if you like.
a lpayer like franceoeur can have a heart the size of secretariat, that doesnt matter. he makes outs. have you heard of outs? you only get 27 of them a game. when you dont make an out, that is good. it tires the pitcher, it scores runs. players that make outs are bad. players that get on base are good.
antiquated mindsets like yours destroy teams and cause failure.
I dont know where you get your info, Ricciardi mocked MLB’s active OBP leader since 2005 Adam Dunn, and said he had no heart.
What has Colletti won exactly? And didnt he sign Andruw Jones???
Also regarding beane, it took me a while to find this, but last week one of our readers posted the following from Billy Beane’s book Moneyball:
Beane put together a list of twenty players they’d draft in a “perfect world”, meaning if money was no object and they didn’t have to compete with the other twenty-nine teams.
The list, and the teams who drafted them:
Pitchers
Jeremy Guthrie – Cleveland, #22 (1st round)
Joe Blanton – Oakland, #24 (1st round)
Jeff Francis – Colorado, #9 (1st round)
Luke Hagerty – Chicago Cubs, #32 (1st round)
Ben Fritz – Oakland, #30 (1st round)
Robert Brownlie – Chicago Cubs, #21 (1st round)
Stephen Obenchain – Oakland, #37 (1st round)
Bill Murphy – Oakland, #98 (3rd round)
Hitters
Nick Swisher – Oakland, #18 (1st round)
Russ Adams – Toronto, #14 (1st round)
Khalil Greene – San Diego, #13 (1st round)
John McCurdy – Oakland, #26 (1st round)
Mark Teahen – Oakland, #39 (1st round)
Jeremy Brown – Oakland, #35 (1st round)
Steve Stanley – Oakland, #67 (2nd round)
John Baker – Oakland, #128 (4th round)
Mark Kiger – Oakland, #158 (5th round)
Brian Stavisky – Oakland, #188 (6th round)
Shaun Larkin – Cleveland, #274 (9th round)
Brant Colamarino – Oakland, #218 (7th round)
If I were Billy Beane, I’d hide under a rock.
If those three GM’s were supposed to prove your case, you need to try again because they undermined it.
let me ask you again, do you know what OPS+ is and why it matters? do you understand why an OPS+ under 100 is bad?
I understand what OPS is, not familiar with OPS+
OPS+ is league and park averaged OPS with 100 set as average. it is not position averaged. so a right fielder should almost always have a higher OPS+ than a catcher or 2b. a RF is expected to provide offense and have an OPS over 100, since the position is so easy defensively. OPS+ is far more closely tied to runs scored and wins than “grit”. you can either accept the reality of that or not. and the fact is that frenchy actively hurts the offense. i dont know how more clearly this can be explained. he is worse than the league average. he is worse than a typical minor league replacement player. this is a mathematical fact. the fact that he never gets hurt and has batted in a lineup with amazing hitters like mccann and chipper means he has lots of rbi. that doesnt mean he is good. he is absolutely, objectively, terrible.
I just wanted to add that Ruben Amaro Jr who won the world series with quite a few gritty players, doesn’t buy into advanced statistics at all especially defensive ones.
“I do not buy numbers defensively. At all,” Amaro said. “I look at fielding percentage. But that other business? I don’t buy it a lick. I think defense is subjective. You know, if you watch a guy, whether he has range or not. You can’t study a guy’s routes to the ball by the numbers. It doesn’t happen. “We subscribe to what our guys see with their eyes, especially when it comes to defense.”
fielding percentage is widely believed to be a non-useful stat. like RBI or pitcher wins.
Its just mind boggling that all this defensive information is out there, and people refuse to look at it, learn about it, and analyze players based on it–along with observational skills.
Martin. It’s perfectly acceptable to look at baseball entirely through the prism of statistics if it makes you happy. If that is how you enjoy the game, good for you. But a lot of other baseball fans really enjoy rooting for “gritty” types who play really hard and complement the superstars. And if you look at championship teams through the ages, these “gritty” types often outperform the superstars in the playoffs (Knight, Dykstra, Fernandez, Agee, Weiss and Koosman come to mind). Francouer is not worth superstar money but he is a very good hitting young outfielder with a good arm who still might improve his weak areas with more experience. And the fans care about him.
thats fine if you like lovable losers that are historically bad, enjoy yourself. just dont expect to win. again, i suggest fielding a special olympic team. retards have an enormous amount of “grit”. they try so hard i can barely believe it. and they might improve with more experience.
You must have loved Albert Belle! You and he share many special talents except he could play baseball.
Martin you are fighting a battle with people who will never take the time to digest advanced statistics.
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/jeff-francoeur-and-rbi-opportunities
I don’t know how I feel about the move. I don’t think it was necessary.
i will concede that frenchy has played reasonably well since he has been here. but that doesnt mean he isnt a historically bad player overall.
i think the folks here like a player that gets angry and cares and will occasionally smash the gatorade jug. thats cool, but it doesnt equate to wins. and in the case of frenchy, he is directly responsible for losses upon losses.
That was obviously a month and a half ago and had a fantasy perspective to it, but it mentions some of the points “saber guys” often refer.
I can’t stand all the sabermetrics bashing that goes on in these comment sections. You all really need to get a grip and realize that the best evaluation of a player is done by using a mix of observational skills and statistical analysis.
The more advanced metrics become, the more complicated they are to understand/digest/use for the common fan. This leads to so many people ignoring/bashing them, which is truly a shame.
If Ruben Amaro, Jr. could explain to me the differences between range factor and uzr, or just in general speak at lengths about specific defensive metrics and why he chooses not to use them, then I would respect his input. But the quote below, does not instill confidence that he has taken the time to study and learn advanced defensive metrics.
At all,” Amaro said. “I look at fielding percentage. But that other business? I don’t buy it a lick. I think defense is subjective. You know, if you watch a guy, whether he has range or not. You can’t study a guy’s routes to the ball by the numbers. It doesn’t happen. “We subscribe to what our guys see with their eyes, especially when it comes to defense.”
BTW, Jayson Werth rates very well on most advanced defensive metrics.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
MATT, YOU MAKE VERY GOOD POINTS CONCERNING WHAT FRENCHY HAS DONE & WHAT HE HASN’T DONE; HOWEVER, I ASK YOUR INDULGENCE TO THIS “GREYBEARD” FAN, WHO AS MY MONIKER IMPLIES, IS VERY OLD SCHOOL AND BELIEVES THE “BACK OF THE CARD” IS A CLEAR INDICATION OF WHAT WAS & NOT A STATEMENT OF FACT ON WHAT’S TO COME. THE MOST POSITIVE FRANCOEUR STATISTIC IS THIS: DOB 01/08/84. I’LL BE 60 THIS YR & I KNOW THERE IS ABSOLUTLY NO TRUTH IN EVALUATING ANYONE’S CAREER AT AGE 25. HER’S A LITTLE EXAMPLE FOR YOU: A LHSP AGE 26 HAS A 6 YR MLB CAREER RECORD OF 18-13 3.45 ERA 1.46 WHIP ON A VERY STRONG CLUB. U TAKING HIM ON YR FANTASY TEAM? I DOUBT IT! BTW THAT SP NAME WAS SANDY KOUFAX
Mets 62, I was around as well when Koufax was getting established, and a Dodger fan as well. Koufax was a slow developer and took years to become proficient, as your numbers show. He always had promise, but was very slow at showing it. When he finally developed, he was the best, but his career was terminated by his arthrtic elbow. Koufax is the prototype of the slow developer, but most players come along quicker than that. If only the Mets had the patience with Ryan that the Dodgers had with Koufax, then we would have a different history and heritage for this team. Oh yeah, as an old timer, I have you beat, going on 67 next month.
Focus on what Francouer does, and realize that he is a # 6 or 7 hitter. He swings the bat and puts balls in play and has some power. No OBP. Now picture Luis Castillo at the plate with a runner on 2nd and 2 outs-who has a better chance of driving him in. Castillo is a OBP guy with NO power, Francouer is a power guy wi no OBP. Asking them to do something that they cannot is a bad idea. Asking Francouer to play hard, play everyday, and put the ball in play with runners on base? He can do that and some runs will cross the plate. I hated him wi Atl, because he would swing at everything and seemed to drive in runs on pitches that were not even strikes.Is he a 3 4 5 hitter on a good team- NO, 6 or 7 hitter-Possibly. Who else is there who plays hard, plays every day? He is playing wi a torn thumb ligament right now in a lost season. D Strawberry missed time in a pennant race wi a broken toe!!!(I am still pissed at that.)Having bored you all to tears now, I will say that if Omar signs him, he will hit .220 wi 12 HR, then be hurt the next 2 years. If we offer him a 1 year deal and he decides to be a FA, he will leave and wind up wi 430 career HR and 1500 RBI. OMAR MUST GO!! If a REAL GM signs him, it will be OK if we can find a REAL #2 pitcher(clif Lee anyone? Wait the Phils…..)
I’ll concede walks aren’t going to be crucial for him given his place in the batting order, but he could stand to cut down on his strikeout rate (rally killer) and increase his line drive rate above 20%.
playing every day has negative value if you play poorly. again, any number of minor leaguers can replace him and the team improves.
Aside from Met minor league outfielders…maybe Jesus Feliciano…but our OF depth in AA and AAA is weak right now. Kirk is far away.
my statement wasnt meant to imply we have good minor leaguers. i mean that frenchy is so bad that even non-prospects can replace him and the team improves. plus there is an army of career AAAA val pascucci types that are better. this guy from boston in the wagner trade, chris carter, is definitely superior.
I agree, any AAAA corner could do the job, I was just continuing the conversation by referencing the weak depth our upper system has in corner outfield spots.
This is just classic judgment on a small sample size. It’s silly.
I’m not going to go crazy on it though. He does offer some intangibles and plays solid defense w/a rocket arm.
His career OBP is truly, troubling.
For his career batted ball rates:
19.7 line drives
42.6 ground balls
37.7 fly balls
14.0 in field fly ball
hr/fb rate is 10.3%
he strikes out 19% of the time and only walks 4.8% of the time for his career.
in 2008 with the braves he got that down to 18.5% while walking 6.1% of the time. If only he can raise his line drive rate to like 22%, strikeout 17% of the time, and walk like 8% of the time…it’d be acceptable. But if I have to look at 20% and 4% for the next 3 years, and essentially be a rally killer…I’m going to freak out.
Well I’m like Jeff more and more each game. He has some great games and when he doesn’t provide he shows his frustration which meens he has the heart to play. Welcome back Jeff!
I like his visible emotion too. At the same time, I’m hesitant to overpay for his services, considering his career of not improving, when an improvement on his .311 obp, and .430 slg is needed. The latter needs an improvement if he is going to be our #6 hitter.
how many wins per season is a show of frustration worth? if you want, the mets can sign me and i will be more frustrated than any player you have ever seen.
meanwhile the mets just won a series and back 2 back games. wtf?
Fine, let’s listen to the haters and we’ll just cut Francoeur, because according to them that’s what a good GM will do.
I really love this saber crap, lets cut Pagan and Omir and we’ll promote all our AAA and AA guys because even though their not ready, they are better.
Lets cut any player who doesnt get at least 3 walks a week because that means they suck ass.
By the way the haters are right, homeruns, RBI’s and batting average mean shit.
Hey Matt and Martin, I got your back!
Those are some of the most idiotic statements ever in a poor attempt to discredit sabermetrics.
For the record, I don’t mind Frenchy as our RF. I am against locking him up in a 3 year deal that will most likely overpay for his services.
Pagan is a stud. Santos is not a major league catcher.
“Lets cut any player who doesnt get at least 3 walks a week because that means they suck ass.”
~idiotic statement, and sabermetrics is far from being “just about walks”
Yo man you should just take the time to read fangraphs.com, and take what you want from it. No one is saying you have to fully subscribe to ACTA sports and read ever sabermetric publication. But you should educate yourself on something you know nothing about, before you attempt to knock it.
MATT, CONSIDERING THE CRAPSHOOT KNOWN AS ARBITRATION IS BEING ELIMINATED BY A 3 YR DEAL, I DOUBT OVERPAYMENT’S THE ISSUE. IN CASE U HAVEN’T HEARD, THE SMARTEST CLUBS AVOID SUCH HEARINGS SINCE THEY TYPICALLY END UP BY HAVING TO OVERPAY A PLAYER U’VE JUST TURNED INTO DISGRUNTLED BY HAMMERING HOME ALL THE THINGS THEY FAIL TO DO. THE ONLY CLUBS WHO GLADLY GO INTO ARBI HEASRINGS ARE THOSE WITHOUT PAYROLL ISSUES, THEY DON’T BOTHER COUNTERING WITH THE FAILURES, THEY JUST PAY THE AWARDED FREIGHT.
FOR SOMEONE SO CONVINCED FRANCOEUR IS AN UNDERPERFORMING CORNBER, I’D THINK YOU’D BE HAPPY TO NOT HAVE HIS SALARY COMPARED TO OTHERS BY A NON-STATS JUDGE. YOUR SABERMETRICS ARE USELESS BETWEEN THE LINES IN MY OPINION. WHERE’S THE DEFENSIVE MEASUREMENTS? IF WE CHOOSE OUR CORNERS BASED SOLELY ON BACKS OF CARDS WE END UP WITH A BUNCH OF CORNERS NAMED DAMIEL MURPHY!
cutting omir is a genuinely good idea. as for pagan, he is far better than frenchie.
Whatever dude, it looks like everybody gave up arguing with you, and so will I.
You watch the game using a calculator and I’ll watch and score the game like always have with a scorebook tallying the hits, runs, RBI’s and homers.
Maybe one day they’ll make scorecards for baseball observers like you with WAR, Zips, UZR, OPS+ and all the other cool anagrams.
Not at all man, I watch every single game and I observe just like you do. I also refer advanced metrics, and combine both informational inputs, to make my evaluations of players/teams etc.
No one’s trying to argue. We’re trying to get you to take your blinders off.
It’s funnny everyone complains about Omar…yet when he is about to lock up a player, who is extremely overrated by mets fans based on a small sample size of production…people seem to be in agreement…until 2011 when every single met fan is bitching about Frenchy.
LOCK UP? HE’S ALREADY UNDER CONTROL TIL ‘15. THE POINT IS AVOIDING ARBITRATION HEARINGS NOT LOCKING UP. MATT, IF HE’S A BUST AS U PREDICT, HE’S STILL EASIER TO MOVE WITH A PRESET CONTRACT THAN WITH PENDING ARBITRARY ARBITRATION HEARINGS. TYPICALLY BY SUBJERCTING YOURSELF TO THE HEARINGS U ARE ALLOWING ONE GREAT YR TO POSSIBLY SET A BAR OF FINANCIAL COMMITMENT UNLIKE A BAD YEAR WILL NOT PRODUCE AN AWARD BELOW CURRENT EARNINGS DESPITE REDUCED PRODUCTION. AVOIDING ARBITRATION IS ALWAYS A PLUS FOR TA CLUB & MINUS FOR A PLAYER. THAT’S THE PRIMARY ISSUE HERE. MOST IMPORTANT FRANCOEUR STATISIC: DOB 01/08/84. SHOVE THAT UP YOUR SABRE
Met fans are so poorly educated about baseball research, it is remarkable. Step your game up, quit bitching, and apply some objective analysis when making recommendations. Blanket statements railing against sabermetrics makes you sound so much more ignorant than you probably are. Seriously, don’t hate on things you don’t comprehend, or in better terms, fail to take the time to comprehend. It really isn’t “genius” stuff. It’s very easy to follow, especially if your true love is baseball.
Take it with a grain of salt, if you choose to, but my god just educate yourself about it before you try and knock it.
Let’s keep analyzing and refrain from useless, argumentative banter.
First batted ball stats–make your own assessments:
He’s dropped his GB% from 43.3% in ‘07 and 44.9% in ‘08 to 38% in ‘09. Will it regress towards his career average of 42.6% or has he improved?
His LD%, 19.4 in ‘07, 20.7 in ‘08, 20.9 in ‘09 has improved each year.
His FB%, 37.3% in ‘07, 34.3% in ‘08, 41.3% in ‘09, reveals that fly balls have taken the place of those ground balls.
HR/FB% has dropped significantly since his first 2 years in the bigs (17%, 15%) to 9.8% in ‘07, 6.5% in ‘08, to 6.3% in ‘09.
His k rate has improved to a respectable 15% this year. Based on his 19% career average, it’d be difficult to sustain that.
He has made improvements in his line drive rates from year to year. His ground ball rates have dropped and his fly ball rates have improved. Is this sustainable? He is striking out considerably less, but still is not walking, at all (3.7% this year vs a career avg. of 4.8%). His BABIP is .313, close enough to his career line of .308.
Let’s look at his propensity to make outs:
A weighted on base average (wOBA, which is just an adjusted OBP) of .316 (career .318) essentially means he is making outs 68.5% of the time, while playing a corner outfield position. Pagan’s career wOBA is .330 (making outs 67% of the time). Ryan Church’s career wOBA is .341. He is better than Timo Perez, whose career wOBA is something like .298.
Clearly, if Frenchy walked a little bit that number would go up. His career slug% of .430 is far from impressive for a 6 hitter. His career isolated power of .160 is okay…but its been down around .130 the past few years.
A 3 year contract, for whatever it is going to be worth (Omar will probably overpay), is not the way to proceed with Frenchy. Especially when we will have to cut payroll next year.
Martin is correct in saying he is an out-making machine. From the 6 hole, he will kill rallys if his k rate reverts to his career avg. of 20%.
Nice stats, Matt F.
I just want to say this about Francoeur: Look, if they sign him for 2 years at $3mm a year, I can deal with it, provided Francoeur plays against lefties (who he mashes). As Sam Page of Amazin Avenue pointed out, platooning him would make sense. However, if he’s the starter forget it. RBI’s are context dependent; I could make out every time and still have 100 RBI’s. No one needs to get offensive, but we should all agree on this: No matter what grit andheart and desire and other things Joe Morgan loves Francoeur brings, he’s still not that good at baseball. And, I’d rather have some one who says nothing in the clubhouse who OPSes 900 than a David Eckstein like player who sucks.
3mm a year would be fine, but he made 3.4 mm this year. I like Frenchy as our RF on a year to year basis. I’m opposed to the 3 year 6 mil deal that seems inevitable.
I agree with Martin that Jeff F. is overall one of the worst offensive starting right fielders in Major League baseball. However, Francoeur has one trait that the Mets lack; passion. I think the fact that Met ownership is willing to offer a multi year contract to a mediocre at best offensive right fielder says alot about the state of this team. The Mets are buying multi years of passion and grit. At this point that seems to be more important to ownership than numbers. So where does Jeff Francoeur rank among right fielders? Hmmm… I see Francoeur at one noch or so below JD Drew. Francocuer is JD Drew-lite. I like Francoeur and would love to see him playing right field hitting number 6 or 7th in the lineup. But if we need Francoeur to hit 5th or lower we’re screwed.
Well drew constantly has a .400 obp so he only makes outs like 60-62% of the time.
Aside from propensity to make outs, Frenchy’s career slugging percentage is a meager .430.
Like I said above, if his strikeout rate hovers around 15% instead of his 20% career mark, he may have taken a step in the right direction. History tells us it is an abberation, and it will regress to his career mark.
martin said:
“are you arguing against your own point? dont you see how the walks are a good thing and the .000 average in our example is misleading? please make an effort. use your head.”
My God, you are dense. I’ll try to dumb it down for you a bit. In the case above, (one out, and three walks) you would not say he made out 33% of the time. Why? Because walks don’t count.
So getting back to your original statement, saying someone makes out 70% of the time means, just what I said: He hits .300
It’s silly to try to talk to an angry moron.
I won’t be bothering with you anymore. You’re on your own now, pal.
Oops, not 33% it’s 25%. Doesn’t matter, the point is still valid, and Martin is still dim.
OBP is the percentage of times you are not out basically.
when a guy comes up to bat, he can either be make an out or not. a hit is one possibility. a walk is another possibility. neither of those things make outs. can you understand that? if i say that you are making outs, that means you are not reaching base. why would i mean hits only? i am not talking about batting average! i am talking about outs! please pay attention!
Keep the numbers coming Martin! Great stuff! Thanks for taking the time to post the stats!
C’mon guys ! Let’s make it to 100 comments !
Little less than 20 twenty away, we can do it !
OK, I’ll do my bit and give you 1 more. My opinion is that Frenchy should not get a 3 yr contract. His downside is swinging at too many sucker pitches off the plate and taking a K in critical situations. It is an easy way for a pitcher to get out of a jam. To give him a 3 yr contract implies that he will improve and grow as a player from where he is today. Yet he shows no sign of reducing his tendency to go after bad pitches. If he learned to be more selective at the plate, especially when the game is on the line, I would concur on the 3 yr contract. Until he demonstrates that improvement, 2 yrs is themost I would go. On top of that, I would want to know the outcome of his thumb surgery first. I make these conclusions from watching games, the sabre people can interpret the stats any way they like to come up with the same conclusion.
If this is true then I got to wait and see the terms of the contract before I can make my own judgement. I hope the Mets don’t over value Francoeur, he’s a solid player but don’t pay him like he’s a real good player.
martin you are a stupid piece of shit frenchy is the man
two statements there for me to address.
1. i am stupid piece of shit: true
2. frenchy is the man: not true.
He may be the man but he is statistically one of the easiest corner outfielders in the history of baseball to get out. It cannot be argued. It is fact. Whether you think that that matters in baseball is your opinion, but the fact itself cannot be ignored. That is far from sabermetrics, it is straight high school math.
Passion/intangibles are welcomed, but should only be on a year to year basis.
All you met fans will be bitching about Frenchy quicker than you bitched about our 2B who has won a world series and gets on base consistenly 37% of the time.
You all need to actually give sabermetrics some time. Try to learn to understand them. Once you do, you will realize that Francouer is conclusively a detriment to any team. You criticize us for only following boxscores and numbers and then blindly cite batting avg. and rbi’s because they are old traditional stats. Looking deeper can only tell you more. Don’t dismiss sabermetrics. The succesful teams follow them.
MATT, DON’T U REALIZE THAT MOST LIKELY INSTEAD OF THE 3YR/6M DEAL U FORSEE & OBJECT TO BY GOING TO ARBITRATION REGULARLY, HE’LL LIKELY BE AWARDED A FULL 6M BY THE FINAL HEARING. THE ONLY WAY TO CONTROL THAT COST ID TO INK HIM NOW! BTW, JUST FOR ARGUEMENT SAKE, LET’S ASSUME THE IMPROBABLE & HE UNDERGOERS AN EPITHANY AT AGE 26 FINISHING THE 2010 SEASON WITH 35HR, .268 BA, .388 OBP, .550 SLG, .838 OPS, WHAT WOULD U CALCULATE HIS ARBITRATION AWARD AT?
BTW, I BORROWED THOSE STATS FROM JASON BAY SO THE COMBINATION IS CERTAINLY DOABLE. WHETHER FRENCHY CAN OR CAN’T IS THE GAMBLE; BUT DO U WANT A CLUB HOPING FOR LESS TO CONTROL COSTS OR HOPING FOR MORE? IT’S SORT OF WHY I HATE FANTASY BASEBALL. I FIND IT IMPOSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY ROOT AGAINST A NYM OR ROOT FOR ANY OTHER PLAYER TO DO WELL AGAINST THE NYM. IF I EVER TRIED TO MY HEAD & HEART WOULD BOTH EXPLODE!
I don’t think he’d be offered that much in arbitration. I understand the philosophy, I’m just getting too anxious wondering what the deal is going to entail. If it’s 3 years upwards of 18-20 mil, I’m going to bug out.
MATT, DON’T BUG; JUST REALIZE YOU AREN’T CONTRIBUTING DIRECTLY TO ANY OVERSPENDING. WITH ALL YOUR STATS BELIEFS, I’M SUPRISED U DIDN’T REALIZE ABOUT 20 YRS AGO USA TODAY, I THINK, FEATURED A PIECE SHOWING THEN THAT MLB PAYROLLS HAD RISEN TOO HIGH TO BE COVERED BY ATTENDANCE “GATE” INCOME; IT WAS ALL IN THE LICENSING & TV REVENUES. I DOUBT YOUR FEARS ARE JUSTIFIED, I’D ANTICIPATE THE 3 YR TOTAL VALUE AT LESS THAN 10M CERTAINLY MODELED AFTER THOSE INKED BY REYES & WRIGHT. THIS IS THE NYM AFTERALL.
MATT, MARTIN, I WAS WILLING TO CONSIDER THERE MAY BE A USE FOR YOUR ANALYSIS; BUT YOU BOTH MADE INDICATIONS LATELY THAT U FAVOR PAGAN OVER FRENCHY? WTF, I’VE DEFENDED ANGEL BASED ON HIS LACK OF ACTUAL EXPERIENCE BY COMPILING ONLY ONE YEAR’S ABs % Gs OVER HIS 4 YR MLB CAREER. TO SAY U VALUE HIM OVER FRANCOEUR IS LUDICROUS AT BEST, STUPID AT WORST. WHERE DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR HIS NEEDING A GPS UNIT JAMMED UP HIS BUTT JUST TO MAKE IT AROUND THE BASES? SURELY OBP IS A USELESS STAT IF U END UP WIPING YOURSELF OFF THE BASES, NEVER SCORING. IN MY “VERY OLD SCHOOL” METHODOLOGY, I PREFER TO EVALUATE A PLAYER MORE BY CONSIDERING RUNS SCORED+RBI-HR TO ACCOUNT FOR THE MOST COTRIBUTION TOWARDS THE ONLY STAT THAT TRULY HAS MEANING, SCORBOARD! IF IT DOESN’T APPEAR ON A SCOREBOARD HOW CAN IT MATTER MORE THAN WHAT DOES R-H-E ARE THE STATS THAT STAND UP OVER TIME. EVERYTHING ELSE IS WINDOW DRESSING
Just saying that Pagan is comparable, actually better, when it comes to producing outs.
“You watch the game using a calculator and I’ll watch and score the game like always have with a scorebook tallying the hits, runs, RBI’s and homers.”
You dismiss OPS+ and, up until two or three years ago, probably had no idea what even OBP stood for — and still seem unaware as to why it’s an important statistic. And it is hardly a new-age, Bill James concept: Branch Rickey applied the same formula when putting together his rosters of position players. (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/01/sports/keeping-score-looking-beyond-batting-average.html)
Spend a few minutes on FanGraphs.com, Baseball-Reference.com, or elsewhere to learn a little about advanced statistics — trust me, you don’t have to be a math major to understand how 99% of them work.
JE just out of curiosity what other major League right fielder would you compare Francocuer to? Which major league starting right fielder is comparable to Francocuer in your mind?
This year- Garrett Anderson, Vernon Wells, Alex Rios are close. Franceour is among the worst every year though which is the problem.
I don’t enjoy making those kinds of comparisons, LifeLong. Admittedly, I am no fan of Frenchy, although both sides of this discussion need to calm down just a little bit. Let’s keep in mind too that Marty Noble is no Peter Gammons: just because he suggests that a three-year extension is in the cards — was there any attribution for his assertion? — by itself, that is no reason to get too excited.
WHILE U SABREMATICIANS ARE CALCULATING ala BEANE I’D LIKE TO ADD A COUPLE OF MORE MID-20s STATS TO THOSE I EARLIER POSTED FOR SANDY KOUFAX:
SP#1 AGE 27
3 YR CAREER #s 24-24 4.02 ERA, 1.40 WHIP
SP#2 AGE 27
6 YR CAREER #’s 7-8 5.01 ERA, 1.55 WHIP
SP#2 AGE 26
6 YR CAREER #’s 18-13 3.45 ERA 1.46 WHIP
SP #1 WAS RANDY JOHNSON
SP #2 WAS AL LEITER
SP #3 WAS SANDY KOUFAX
SOMEHOW I DON’T QUITE BELIEVE THE SABREMETRIC READINGS ON THESE PLAYERS @ THEIR MID 20s WAS AN ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF THEIR FUTURE ACCOMPLISHMENTS. ALL THE STATS IN THE WORLD ARE ONLY INDICATORS OF THE PAST WHICH MAY BE RELEVENT FOR A PLAYER WHO’S ALREADY FIRMLY AFFIXED MID-CAREER; BUT MID-20s? REDICULOUS ASSUMPTION!
I’M TRULY BEMUSED BY ALL THESE COMPLAINTS COMPARING JEFF TO UN-NAMED CORNERS OF ALL TIME? ALL TIME? WHER’D MATT F. GET THOSE NUMBERS FROM? DID THEY INCLUDE THE LIKES OF MIKE VAIL? BILLY BEANE? RON SWABODA? MIKE JACOBSON? DANIEL MURPHY? ALL THOSE THAT RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY FOUND THEMSELVES IN RF OR LF? HOW ABOUT COMPARING JEFF’S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THAT OF RYAN CHURCH? SOMEHOW I BELIEVE THAT LIKELY DOESN’T PROVE MARTIN & MATT’S POINT.
What does Sandy Koufax have to do with Jeff Francoeur? Are you saying Franceour has hall of fame potential? Are you trying to use Kofaux to disprove sabermetrics? Sabermetrics can not be disproved with the example of one player as many people try to do. Those are called outliers. They exist in any statisitical sample. The fact is that at least 95% of the time a sabermetric evaluation of a player will hold true.
Mets62, I understand that you feel very strongly about these issues, but typing a paragraph in capital letters is an annoying practice.
the Met team tht Met fans seem to want:
Jose Reyes ss
Orlando Hudson 2b
David Wright 1b
Daniel Murphy 1b
Carlos Beltran CF
Jeff Francoeur RF
Angel Pagen LF
Josh Thoel C
-
Better than the 2010 Phillies? No.
Better than the 2010 Braves? No.
Better than the 2010 Marlins? No.
Better than the 2010 Nationals? It would be a close race for 5th place!
Man don’t be so negative about the prospects of that team for 2010. In its basic makeup, it’s the same team as this year plus (hopefully) full seasons from Beltran, Reyes, and Wright.
For a closer analysis…
C Thole hopefully an upgrade over Santos/Schneider
1B Murphy should probably be a little better, still below league avg 1B though
2B Hudson will definitely be due to regress. He was below avg at 2B according to UZR but still better than Castillo. Very slight upgrade, maybe negligible
3B Wright power increases? please.
SS Reyes miles ahead of the replacement level garbage that played there this season; huge upgrade, likely 4 to 5 wins worth
LF Pagan is slightly above average. Shouldn’t be a starter.
CF Beltran much better than the Pagan/Sullivan/Martinez group. Huge upgrade… but will he be the same guy defensively?
RF Francoeur is due to regress because of a huge BABIP and other troubling factors such as he swings at anything and never walks. UZR rates him horribly this year (these stats probably skewed due to a lack of previous data at Citi Field, but he has been regressing defensively since 2007).
Overall, this team is not great… but definitely not a last place team. In a pretty strong division, 4th place would not be shocking.
My God Chris I wrote that sarcastically to demonstrate that if Met fans keep the same ole same ole we are doomed to another losing season. And you actually think the Mets will play that lineup? And you think it’s ok?!
Alright lets walk through a bit of this… Castillo is the most productive offensive player this year. Would you agree? Castillo’s numbers will improve nest year if Reyes hits in front of him and Wright behind him. There is no way in hell the Mets are playing Daniel Murphy at 1st base nest year and of course he is not going to hit clean up. And no I don’t have a good answer as to why the Mets c.. I’m sorry I can’t continue this lineup is laughable to even consider…
Haha, I know. I just rambled on way too long to say that lineup wouldn’t be “last-place” bad and would be much better than this year’s team (barring any more injuries). However, I apologize for randomly attacking you, as you made a rare good point for these message boards.
I actually would not be surprised if the Mets came out with that lineup next season given the current management of this team. This would be a travesty, as barring a serious upgrade of the pitching staff, this team could not compete as a ~.500 team.
Yes, Castillo has had a good season offensively, and I would probably say second behind Wright (Francoeur has been solid as a Met despite the horrible plate discipline, but with his ATL numbers his season is still bad). However, given his injury history and declining defensive skills, I would try to unload him this offseason because his value will never be higher again. If they can’t get adequate value in return, I would fully support bringing him back again.
Daniel Murphy is a below average hitter and should not be playing first base, a position where decent hitting is easy to find.
Unfortunately arbitrators still subscribe to traditional stats when analyzing players (as far as I know – is this still true?) so I’m sure Frenchy is going to get more in arbitration than he deserves, hence the Mets wanting to lock him up. I’m simply saying I hope we don’t overpay while citing the contradictory remarks from all of you saying “fire omar” “omar hasn’t got a clue” “omar is terrible” etc. yet all of a sudden are supporting him extending one of the most prolific out-producers in the game.
I have some hope for Frenchy, I do. I outlined why above – 1) dropped his k rate
2) dropped his gb rate
3) He was forced to look at his own scouting report when he came to the mets – maybe that opened his eyes…
And all of you expect 20 hrs from him but his career slug is .430 and his isolated power the past few yrs has been .130
He has been a power hitter in years.
And he was quite a headcase for the braves if you read all their blogs and news reports.
Who do you think you are man? Using stats to prove some guy is bad at baseball? I went to Citi Field to watch actually watch him play and Jeff Francoeur is the hardest working player I have ever seen, with grission rivaling the great David Eckstein.
Francoeur came up as a great prospect and is still 25 years old! Give him a break. Just look at how great he looks in a uniform (ignore the retarded looking face). He has to be a great baseball player. And don’t you see how well he throws the ball?
Quit reading the backs of baseball cards.
Right, I’ll ignore facts and solely trust my eyes. Why don’t they just let any old fan be a scout?
Nah, man…. you gotta be a “baseball man.” You had to have played the game and know what it’s like . Fans can’t just tell who is good at baseball… only old “baseball men.”
But at least the fans are better than those morons who use advanced statistical analysis using large sample sizes of data to determine who the best players are. Baseball isn’t about numbers… it’s about grit and heart and passion.
In summary: tons of data to determine the most efficient way to field a baseball team < gut feeling and looking good in a uniform. What do you think this is, a business?
I can’t tell if these replies are supposed to be sarcastic or just idiotic.
I guess I should have read further but from what people were saying yesterday, I couldn’t tell.
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/9/21/1046049/jeff-francoeur-lives-in-the-now
sums it up perfectly
i’ve stated many times in these comments statistics that show he’s improved many areas of his game this year. the problem is, 95% of the time those stats regress. we’ll see next year.
What are those graphs? This is baseball, not algebra. Idiot.
Haha I gotcha now
You’d better get your sarcasm meter checked, Matt! That took you way too long!
Dude you should see me on my 2007 blackberry blatantly ignoring what I have to do at work, simply to wait 3 minutes for the page to load and scroll down through 110 comments to fight back. It’s seriously pathetic. I need help.
So many lulz in here
Indeed! I was going to post “Lots of epiclulz here” but thought that would just add fuel to the fire. Well, you said it and I agree.
130 comments all about Franceour. I absolutely love this.
Hope to see you back, Frenchy. Thanks for being a gamer.
Martin is correct of course — over 162 games, there aren’t many hitters worse than Francoeur. Keep your “grit,” I like OBP. I’m sure you guys want Murphy and Santos as regulars next year too, so there’ll be 3 guys who can’t get on base in the lineup.