This Is What I Get

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• Colin August 27, 2009 at 7:59 am

  Welcome to life as a Mets fan. They break our hearts, treat us like dirt, tease us with promises that things will be different this time. Occasionally give us something magical but overall, its an unhealthy relationship. One that we keep coming back for. Why? Because we believe.

  Ya Gotta Believe.
  • Satish Ram August 27, 2009 at 10:31 am

    That’s the sad yet interesting thing about real Met Fans. They’re always believing.
• fredisright August 27, 2009 at 8:50 am

  It is sad to see that they did not build up a good minor league system.

  But it is my view not to blame the owners, because they kept trying to do so. Yet whoever it was that they put in place to create a good one to happen failed to do so. Plus they also paid good money to those people and the system that they made.

  All I can say is that this is the same as any other business. If it fails or part of it fails, all that is left to do is to keep on trying until you get it right.

  You can not stand still or walk away, for that is failing. And the Wilpons are not made of that stuff.
  • METS62FAN August 27, 2009 at 11:00 am

    CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
    FRED, IT’S NICE TO SEE YOU’VE CHOSE TO WASH THE PABLUM DOWN WITH KOOLAIDE. IF IT ISN’T OWNERSHIP, WHO IS IT? HERE ARE FRED’S RULES AS I SURMISE THEM TO BE BASED UPON STATEMENTS ATTRIBUTED TO WILPONS:
    RULE #1: OUR GOAL IS COMPETITIVNESS, IF WE GARNER A CHAMPIONSHIP THAT WOULD BE NICE.
    RULE #2: NO MATTER WHAT THE BENEFIT, NO LUXURY TAXES WILL BE PAID.
    RULE #3: NO DRAFT SIGNING BONUSES HIGHER THAN COMMISSIONER’S RECOMMENDED GUIDELINES WILL BE PAID REGARDLESS OF TALENT INVOLVED & CLUB NEEDS.
    RULE #4: ADDING CASH TO FACILITATE DEALS WILL BE DISCOURAGED REGARDLESS OF RETURN IMPROVMENT.
    RULE #5: NO CONTRACTS FOR NON-PRODUCTIVE PLAYERS WILL BE ABSORBED.
    RULE #6: NO PLAYERS WHO MAY GENERATE NEGATIVE HEADLINES WILL BE OBTAINED OR RETAINED.
    RULE #7: NO OFFERING F/As ARBITRATION TO ENSURE ADDITIONAL DRAFT PICK RETURNS REGARDLESS OF OBVIOUS DECLINE BY EXITING PLAYER.

    FRED, HOW CAN YOU IMPLY OWNERSHIP IS DOING ITS’ BEST WHEN THEY ORDERED THE DISMANTLING OF THE ’04 ROSTER REFUSING TO ALEVIATE REMAINING CONTRACTS(INCL CASH) FOR THE PURPOSE OF ACQUIRING QUALITY PROSPECTS IN RETURN,i.e. DEALING ALOMAR,BENITEZ,BURNITZ,VENTURA,ZEILE. ONLY QUALITY MINOR LEAGUER RECEIVED: ROYCE RING
    BTW, MY OPINION IS MAIDOFF SCAM IS USED AS SMOKESCREEN TO COVER ISSUES IN EXISTANCE SINCE DOUBLEDAY BUYOUT! RECALL HOW DIFFICULT WILPONS HAD IT IN COMPILING ENOUGH TO GET IT DONE? IF SO WHERE’S ALL THAT CASH COME FROM TO INVEST & SUBSEQUENTLY LOSE. DO THE MATH!
    • theonlymaskman August 27, 2009 at 12:29 pm

      Guess they haven’t delivered on Rule #1. Where’s the competitiveness now and what’s the strategy to get it back? The organization is in disarray and there is no sign of improvement. It all starts with Fred and moves downward through Jr in Command and the front office and the coaching staff and the training staff. Incompetence pervades. We’re not getting better until ownership sells out and the dead wood is cleared out.
      • Satish Ram August 27, 2009 at 12:36 pm

        “The organization is in disarray and there is no sign of improvement.”

        That’s one of the points I wanted to get across. I’ll stomach a bad season if it means that it’s for rebuilding or for a greater good in the future but there’s not alot of hope for improvement or change.
      • METS62FAN August 28, 2009 at 10:38 am

        MASK, U FRUSTRATE ME WITH THIS ILLOGICAL APPROACH THAT ANY GM HAS THE ABILITY TO OVERRIDE HIS OWNERSHIP. YOUR ILLOGICAL HATRED FOR OMAR IN THE FACE OF HOW MUCH HE ACTUALLY HAS ACCOMPLISHED IS ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING.
        PRE-OMAR THE METS UNDER FRED’S INFLUENCE HAD A PAYROLL BUDGET SUBSTANTIALLY BELOW THE LUXURY LINE REQUIRING PHILLIPS’ BEGGING FOR INCREMENTAL INCREASES, WHILE PASSING ON EVERY MARQUIS NAME A-ROD,VLAD, PIAZZA(YES, FRED VETOED THE FL DEAL BEFORE DOUBLEDAY OVERRODE HIM)AND MANY MORE WE’LL LIKELY NEVER KNOW. CONSIDER THIS WE WENT FROM OWNERSHIP BEING SATISFIED FIELDING SUCH QUALITY AS WE ARE FIELDING TODAY AS AN OPENNING DAY ROSTER. TO AT LEAST HAVING A RECOGNIZABLE, QUALITY “CORE” THE LIKES NOT SEEN IN FLUSHING SINCE FRED’S PURGE OF THE ’86ers.

        IT NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME HOW YOU FAIL TO PRODUCE ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS FOR YOUR COMPLAINTS. WHO COULD THE TEAM HAVE ACQUIRED THAT WOULD ACTUALLY REPLACE THE PRODUCTION OF BELTRAN,REYES,DELGADO, MAINE,PEREZ,PUTZ AND WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THEM ONCE THE AFOREMENTIONED MIAs RETURN?(DUNN?-8M, DiROSA?-5M)DUNN,UNAVAILABLE. TRY TO KEEP IN MIND FRED WOULD NEVER ALLOW PAYROLL TO EXCEED 163M FOR ’09 WHILE IT WAS AT 149M TO START LEAVING U WITH ONLY 14M TO SPEND ON ALL THOSE REPLACEMENTS. CRY AS YOU WILL, IT CHANGES NOTHING REGARDING FRED’S EDICT OVER LUXURY TAXES.
        IT’S AMUSING HOW WEEKS AGO U VOWED TO ABANDON THIS TEAM, YET HERE U STILL ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT UNCHANGABLE FACTS!(FUNNY, ,UR NOT A LIAR) DOESN’T HITTING YR HEAD SO LONG & SO OFTEN HURT? I’D THINK IT WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH.
        TO ME, & I’M LIKELY WRONG, THE TRUE FAN RECOGNIZES THE LIMITATIONS OF THEIR TEAM AND ROOTS FOR THEM TO SUCCEED DESPITE THOSE LIMITATIONS & UNDERSTANDS WHEN THEY DON’T. ONE OF MY ADVANTAGES OVER YOU IN THIS REGARD IS I DON’T HAVE THE YANKEE ENVY YOU DISPLAY LIKE PEACOCK PLUMAGE. NO OTHER TEAM FOLLOWS THE MODEL YOU PRESENT. CERTAINLY THEY REPLACE SINGULAR STARS THAT FALL; BUT HOW TO HANDLE SO MANY AT ONCE? YOUR BOSS LIKE APPROACH OF “I WANT IT NOW; NO EXCUSES” THE PREPARATIONS TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WERE IN PLACE. IF U DISAGREE THEN U CAN’T BE DISAPPOINTED. U LOST NOTHING. THE ACT OF GOD DISASTER THAT ENSUED DOES NOT MAKE ANYONE INTO LIARS. IF THEY STARTED WITH MURPH @ 1B,PAGAN @ CF, CORA @ SS AS SO MANY MET TEAMS HAVE RE. QUALITY OF PLAY ANTICIPATED; U’D BE RIGHT.
        • theonlymaskman August 28, 2009 at 5:58 pm

          Don’t think for a second that my discontent stops with Omar. I have said several times that this will not turn around until the Wilpons sell the team. I want the entire dysfunctional pack: Wilpons, Omar, Jerry, and most of the coaches out of here.

          I haven’t given alternatives because there have been so many teams picking up players to improve their teams while the Mets stood pat with “wait and see”. We are seeing what wait and see has brought – failure. Omar made no attempt whatsoever. A true GM tries to push back against the owner and get something done. None of that here. The leadership is in disarray and has done nothing. It is not up to me to make proposals. It is up to them to start the repair proccess and it has not started.

          The Reyes story today is not pretty. There is more of the same to come when we hear of other players that are injured. This is inexcusable. There are altogether too many examples of ineptitude that embarrass Mets fans. NY deserves better than what the Wilpon Vampire clique is producing.

          It is time for YOU to STOP DEFENDING OMAR.

          I am actually getting pretty worn out by YOUR criticizing of my opinions. I am entitled to my opinions and will continue to post them here. You need not reply.
        • Ace August 28, 2009 at 7:38 pm

          Mask, you are apparently not going to convince this guy. His love affair with Omar is a strong one. It’s completely baffling to me, but I agree with you. I don’t recall any of us saying we love the Wilpon’s. Matter of fact, we have posted several times how much we would like to see them sell.
        • Brian August 29, 2009 at 1:08 am

          Based on his ongoing defense of Omar Minaya, I think his disability might just be some sort of mental disorder.
        • theonlymaskman August 29, 2009 at 8:49 am

          Mets62, You say I never provide alternative solutions. They have been occurring on a daily basis. Take this for example:
          http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ankq0xsHwmxgjdFDsSTwPd0RvLYF?slug=ap-angels-raystrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

          The Angels acquired Kazmir for 2 minor leaguers and a PTBNL. Why couldn’t the Mets have done that? We would have Kazmir back and he could be our #2 in the rotation. Of course, you would say the Angels could do this because they are in the power seat, but for the Mets to do it the price would have been David Wright. To that I say Bull Crap. The Angels have been desperate for starting pitching as their staff has fallen apart with injuries just as our whole team has been afflicted. The difference is the Angels have done something about it and are still doing something about it by getting Kazmir. The Angels are in contention for a Championship whereas we are in contention for the cellar with no likelihood of near term improvement. Stop being an apologist for Omar. He needs to start doing his job.
• theonlymaskman August 27, 2009 at 8:54 am

  I have been a fan since the first day in 1962. It is very disheartening that after all those years the team has regressed so badly to the state it is currently in with little hope of improvement on the horizon. The team is currently better than the 1962 team, but not by much. And that makes me very sad. My biggest wish is that the Wilpons sell the team so that baseball men of greater capability can take over and give the fans some degree of satisfaction. I will not be attending games until some drastic change happens.
  • METS62FAN August 27, 2009 at 11:11 am

    MASK, WILPON ISSUE ISN’T BASEBALL KNOWLEDGE RELATED IT’S MORE THE DISCONNECT BETWEEN FANS GOALS & THEIR GOALS. FANS WANT CHAMPIONSHIP BANNERS, FRED WANTS COMPETITIVNESS CHAMPIONSHIP RESULTS WOULD BE NICE; BUT SECONDARY. WAS THERE EVER A BETTER ROLE MODEL FOR TOP COMPETITIVNESS SANS WS CHAMPIONSHIPS THAN BKLYN DODGERS(aka “DEM BUMS”, “BOYS OF SUMMER”)? UNFORTUNATLY, FRED HAS A ROMANTICIZED, BUCOLIC DREAM/FANTASY RECALLING HIS JOY OF GETTING A FEW MOMENTS OF HIS FATHER’S UNIVERSE TO SHARE. I’M CERTAIN HE HEARS OUR AGONIZED PLEAS & INTERPRETS THEM IN THE SAME VEIN AS THE COUNTLESS “WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR”S OF OUR DODGER PREDECESSORS.
    • theonlymaskman August 27, 2009 at 12:43 pm

      Doesn’t he realize he certainly hasn’t delivered on competitiveness this year? I guess injuries is the copout. But there has been no substantial effort made to bolster the team to reduce the effect of the injuries. The only strategy has been “wait and see” and we see where that is taking us, down the road to worsening injuries, setbacks and delayed returns and the possibility of players who never return.

      But yes, Fred is in his dreamworld and he probably does view us as the Flatbush Faithful who were used to their state of also-ran’s (by the way, we’re not that good) and would say “Wait till next year”. The Dodger fans could say that because they were actually always close and next year might actually be THE year (which 1955 finally was). But we are not close, at least this year. Worse still, there is no prognosis regarding how we get to be competitive again other than waiting 3 to 5 years.

      We are not the Flatbush Faithful and by next year, the novelty of Citifield will be gone. Fans will be able to get their shakes at the local 7-11. Without some quality there will be empty seats, and with that, the financial crisis for the Wilpons will only worsen. Hopefully the Mets will go off on a court mandated bankruptcy sale out of the hands of the current ownership.
      • METS62FAN August 29, 2009 at 9:06 am

        MASK, I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO AN OPINION & I TOO AM FRUSTRATED BY OUR DIFFERRING APPROACHES, I’M CERTAINLY TIRED OF PLAYING THE SHERRIFF IN FRONT OF THE LYNCH MOB. BTW, HANGING OMAR WILL NOT ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING; BUT A “NEW START” TO A NEW REBUILDING PROGRAM & I’M TIRED OF THAT ROUTINE! IT’S CERTAINLY DEBATABLE AS TO THE JOB OMAR HAS DONE, WHAT ISN’T DEBASTABLE IS THE DIFFERENCE IN WIN% IN OMAR’S 5 YRS COMPARED TO THE PREVIOUS 5 YRS, EVEN WITH THIS SUCKED UP YR INCLUDED! IF A NEW GM CAN’T SPEND AS NECESSARY AND CAN’T DRAFT THE BEST AVAILABLES, HOW LONG BEFORE YOU’RE BUYING ANOTHER ROPE? STARTING ANOTHER REBUILDING PROGRAM? AGAIN! PERHAPS A VISIT TO THIS SITE MAY SUPPLY THE COMPARATIVE INSIGHT I’VE FAILED TO COMMUBICATE:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_Mets_general_managers_and_managers
        MASK, HERE’S A WORD YOU AND ‘ACE’ RARELY SEEM TO CONSIDER: CONSEQUENCES
        LET’S SAY WE’RE SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING THE WILPONS SO DISCOURAGED THAT THEY CHOOSE TO SELL. WHO’S THE BUYER GOING TO BE? DO U OR ANYONE ELSE READING THIS BELIEVE THE COMPETITOR OWNERS WILL ALLOW A MAVERICK OWNER INTO A LUCRATIVE FRANCHISE? CREATE ANOTHER NYY OR BOSOX FREESPENDING MONSTER? DRIVING UP SALARIES BEYOND THEIR FORSEEABLE ABILITIES? YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT WHOMEVER IS APPROVED TO BUY OUR BELOVED TEAM MUST FIRST BE APPROVED BY THOSE WANTING THEM TO BE MEDIOCRE. WHY ELSE IS MARK CUBAN NOT THE NEW OWNER OF THE CUBS?
        NO, A BASEBALL FRANCHISE IN ITSELF WILL NOT MAKE ANY OWNER RICH. I BELIEVE THE TRUE MONEY MAKER THE WILPONS FORESEE IS THE SURROUNDING CONDEMNED PROPERTIES IN THE ‘IRON TRIANGLE’ WITH THEIR EXPERTISE IN PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT/MANAGEMENT I’M CERTAIN THEY ARE PICTURING A SURROUNDINGS AKIN TO THOSE PRESENTLY IN DENVER. A COMPLETE COMMUNITY WITH LUXURY TOWNHOMES,CONDOS WITH THEATERS & HOTELS BUILT IN THE BRICK FACAADE OF CITI, “THE JEWEL IN THE MIDDLE”. THAT’S THEIR POT O’ GOLD. THEIR MONEYMAKER. WHY WE’LL HAVE A NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TASK IN DISCOURAGMENT. NEXT TIME YOU’RE IN CITI WALK AROUND THE INTERIOR GAZING OUTWARD AWAY FROM THE FIELD & IMAGINE WHAT MAY BE DEVELOPED THERE.
        • theonlymaskman August 29, 2009 at 9:19 am

          Mets62, With you living in NC, I can assure you I’ve been there many more times than you can ever imagine. I grew up in Manhattan and Brooklyn and my parents retired in Queens. I live within an hour of Citi. I know the chop shops are in the vicinity. If the Wilpons were going to do that, they would have done it when they were flush during the boom years. They are now busted broke and the bloom is off the rose. The economy is in decline and there is no growth anywhere. You can forget huge investment type expansions. The game now is defensiveness and hanging onto what is left. The Wilpons are barely hanging on and trying to use Mets revenues (the shake shack is their glory) to restore their lost fortunes. It is inevitable the team will be sold. With their bereft mgmt style, the team will not produce and attendance will fall off. When revenues drop below break even, the Wilpons will sell out to avoid bankruptcy. The hand writing will be on the wall with attendance figures in 2010. The grim reaper is on the way. It will be announced before 12 months are up and they will be sold in 2011. Mark my word as that is the only solution for us. We may even wind up with a court appointed receiver. We shall see!
  • Satish Ram August 27, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    I respect people like you who have stuck with the Mets since day one. I hope to be a fan till the day I die, although it seems to be getting harder each year. I wonder if they take the fact that people are still attending games as a consolation to make them feel as they haven’t screwed up yet.
    • theonlymaskman August 27, 2009 at 12:47 pm

      I am sure they see the attendance figure as demonstrating that the fanbase is accepting the injury excuse and giving them a ride on this season. As long as turnstiles spin, there will be no urgency to improve. Mgmt needs to develop a sense of urgency, but instead they are complacent.
      • Ace August 27, 2009 at 1:17 pm

        Couldn’t have said it better. That lack of urgency is like a cancer, once it is in the clubhouse you have to surgically remove it. But as long as attendance is up there will be no surgery
      • METS62FAN August 28, 2009 at 9:07 am

        MASK, YOUR CONTEMPT FOR THE INURY EXPLAINATION IS REDICULOUS. THE ISSUE ISN’T TYPICAL “ALL TEAMS DEAL WITH INJURIES” STUFF; BUT THE ABUNDANCE & EXTENSION OF SAID INJURIES. HAD THEY OCCURRED NORMALLY ONE AT A TIME PLAYER 1 DOWN FOR 2 WKS, FOLLOWED BY PLAYER 2 AND SO ON. I SUBMIT OUR TEAM’S PREDICAMENT WAS ADEQUATLY COVERED, PAGAN IS AN ADEQUATE 2 WK B/U IN OUTFIELD AS IS SULLIVAN & REED WITH CORA & TATIS THE SAME FOR INFIELD, HECK BETWEEN THE 2 THEY’VE ALL 4 POSITIONS COVERED FOR AN EFFECTIVE 2 WKS. ONE ‘CORE’ PLAYER’S ABSENCE COULD ADEQUATELY BE SUSTAINED AS NON-CRIPPLING FOR EVEN ONE 60-DAYer; BUT WHO PLANS FOR 75% & STILL MAINTAINS CONTENDER STATUS. FOR THE ’09 NYM I REFER YOU TO THE FAMOUS BRANDO LINE FROM “ON THE WATERFRONT”(I COULDS BEEN A CONTENDER) THERE ARE FEW FRANCHISES WHO COULD EVEN HAVE EFFECTIVE BACKUPS TO 40% OF THEIR ROTATION WE’VE LOST 120% OF THE ROTATION (SANTANA,PEREZ,MAINE,NIEVE,NEISE,REDDING) TO GO ALONG WITH 75% OF THE INFIELD & 33% OF THE OUTFIELD AND SOMEHOW YOU MANNAGE TO CALL IT “AN EXCUSE”, I GUESS THE BUBONIC PLAGUE WAS AN EXCUSE FOR THE DARK AGES.
        • theonlymaskman August 28, 2009 at 9:55 am

          You can buy the excuse hook, line and sinker, but what has Omar done to remediate the situation? Nothing but wait and see and let all the opportunities pass by to other teams. They lied to us with stories of day to day and early returns and retuns by All Star break and all manner of BS. The bottom line is nobody came back except Billy who was immediately given away to help out the Coupons with a salary dump. It has been totally mismanaged and I refuse to give Omar a pass on this. Yes, I came to bury Omar and not to praise him. Praise him all you want; I don’t buy it! Oh yes, meaningful games in September… another baldfaced lie!
        • Ace August 28, 2009 at 10:03 am

          Not sure how you can continue to defend Omar here! The state of the Mets organization is NOT the sole fault of the Coupons.(loved that ine so I had to use it Mask) Who sat in press conference after press conference and lied though his teeth? OMAR! Then he “doesn’t recall” Santannas injury in spring training? C’mon, this ridiculous stance that Omar has no ownership in the very long list of problems with the entire organization is absurd at this point.
    • Paul Nassau August 27, 2009 at 8:05 pm

      Satish Ram: You’re 16, I’m 79. Would you like to compare notes? And when we talk about the future, let’s not put it too far out there.
      Pops
      • Satish Ram August 27, 2009 at 8:16 pm

        Sadly, i’m not 16 yet…Late birthdays.

        And lol. I wonder if you’re the Paul Nassau I’ve heard of. I’d be honored to compare notes. I assume you’ve been a fan for a long time?
  • METS62FAN August 27, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    MASK, AS TO ADDING MORE COMPETITIVNESS TO REPLACE INJURED, YOU MUST REALIZE BY NOW THAT FRED MEANT HIS VOW TO NEVER PAY A DIME IN LUXURY TAXES ONCE HE & GEORGE LOST THEIR FIGHT AGAINST THE CONCEPT. BEING ONLY 14MM UNDER THE 163M LINE FOR ’09 THERE WAS JUST ENOUGH FOR OMAR TO ACQUIRE EITHER A REAL #2 SP(HALLADAY) OR POWER LF BAT(HOLIDAY). I’M CERTAIN TAT THE $ UNSPENT ARE MORE THAN COINCIDENTALLY JUST ENOUGH FOR ACQUISITIONS THAT, IF INJURIES HADN’T OCCURRED WOULD’VE ENERGIZED THE BASE & PUT THEM OVER THE TOP. TO HAVE ACQUIRED AN INTERIM IMPROVEMENT WOULD’VE PRECLUDED EITHER OF THOS 2 IF AVAILABLE. IT’S CALLED KEEPING YR OPTIONS OPEN UNFORTUNATLY INJURIES NEVER SEEMED TO HEAL & PLAYERS NEVER RET’D.
    • theonlymaskman August 27, 2009 at 2:31 pm

      Plenty of teams made deals during the trading period. Not all of those cost $. The Mets did squat.
      • METS62FAN August 28, 2009 at 9:51 am

        MASK, IF U BELIEVE THOSE SAME PLAYERS WERE AVAILABLE TO NYM FOR THE SAME LEVEL OF RETURN YOU ARE VERY NAIVE RE. NEGOTIATIONS OF DEALS. PRICES VARY BASED UPON PERCEIVED DESPERATION/NEED. DO YOU NOT THINK OUR RETURN ON WAGS WOULD’VE BEEN MORE SUBSTANTIAL HAD PAPELBON JUST BEEN INJURED? I REST MY CASE WITH THIS, IF I WERE SHAPIRO BEING CALLED BY OMAR REGARDING DiROSA I START MY PRICE AT D.WRIGHT & IF PHONE ISN’T SLAMMED DOWN, I RELENT ON FRANCOEUR & A MILBer. I WORK MY WAY THROUGH ALL THE TOP NYM ASSETS I CAN AFFORD UNTIL ENDING IT WITH, “OMAR, MY FRIEND, I GUESS WE DON’T MATCH UP THAT WELL”. MASK, U REALLY NEED TO ACCEPT THE SIMPLE FACT THAT MOST PROPOSED DEALS ARE NEVER REPORTED & THE NYM FRONTOFFICE ISN’T MANNED BY COMPLEETE & TOTAL FOOLS.
        • theonlymaskman August 28, 2009 at 9:58 am

          That’s the challenge of the job he’s got. Unfortunately he does not have the skills to do it. Total fools in the front office?…. pretty close to that in actuality!
      • METS62FAN August 28, 2009 at 11:38 am

        MASK, U STILL DON’T GET IT, NO ONE CAN WIN CHAMPIONSHIOPS IF THEIR OWNERSHIP DOESN’T CARE ABOUT WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS. TO PRESENT DAY OWNERS(FRED) HE’S ALREADY GIVEN THE FANS ONE WHICH HE WAS SATISFIED WITH IN BKLYN. REPLACE OMAR IF U LIKE THOUGH OMAR HAS FRED’S FAITH REPLACEMENT LIKELY A REPEAT OF PHILLIPS’ YEARS WHOM FRED DISTRUSTED. AT LEAST OMAR GOT MARQUEE PLAYERS IN THEIR PRIME INSTEAD OF PAST IT.BELTRAN, K-ROD EVEN PRIME BORDSERLINE ACQUISITIONS(DELGADO,WAGNER) SUPERIOR TO PHILLIPS’ CORNERSTONES OF ALOMAR,VAUGHN,BURNITZ,ZEILLE, VENTURA REMEMBER, “LEARN FROM HISTORY OR REPEAT IT” YOUR CHOICE! DO U THINK ACQUIRING SANTANA BY TRADE WAS A PEDESTRIAN MOVE? OR SKILLED MANEUVER?
        • theonlymaskman August 28, 2009 at 11:42 am

          No Mets62, it’s you who doesn’t get it. We’re not talking about championships. We’re talking about a ompetitive Major League team and not just in September, but all season long. We do not have that and the prospect fo that is way off in the distant future. Stop defending; you are in denial.
        • Ace August 28, 2009 at 11:57 am

          Your continual defense of Omar is ridculous at this point. Your only argument is the Wilpons do not want to spend money. Clearly your right and everyone has conceded that long ago. but it is you that is in complete denial with regards to Omar and his management “skills”. If NONE of the current woes in this organization is his fault, how do you explain the complete mishandling of the injured players? C’mon man, no one is having a lovefest with the Wilpons,but there is no logic in saying they are the sole reason for the sad and depleted state of this organization as a whole.
        • Brian August 29, 2009 at 1:14 am

          “NO ONE CAN WIN CHAMPIONSHIOPS IF THEIR OWNERSHIP DOESN’T CARE ABOUT WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS”

          Truth of the matter is, Omar should’ve been fired after the 2007 season… it was his fault, more then Willie Randolph’s, for putting together teams that fall apart like a Kia when it matters most.

          And, yeah, I guess you can say blame ultimately falls on the Wilpons… for not ridding themselves of Omar when they did Willie.
• alan August 27, 2009 at 11:27 am

  Some really accurate points in this posting “Ram”…Part of the problem has and will always be the perception of the fans. Being that you are a relatively new fan you have not until now experienced what original Met fans have lived through. Our 2009 team with all of the major injuries it has suffered is now “finding new ways” to lose baseballl games the same as the 1962-1966 club did. In those days we had very few players of major league talent on the roster. Many of those players were not even of Triple A quality. The fact is that ownership has spent a fortune to bring a championship to Flushing for a few years now and it has not happened. The team fell just short in 2006, and then “choked” down the stretch in 2007. They couldn’t do it in 2008 once Billy Wagner began hurting. Each time Omar went out and brought new faces in to try and get us over the top and we were happy and looked forward to the upcoming season especially in 2009. Disaster does not even begin to describe the events of 2009.

  Perhaps, it is time to realize that we cannot think like Yankee fans in terms of being champs every year. When a team is on the brink they make moves to try and get the last pieces of the puzzle. When it is time to rebuild there are going to be some leaner times and we should not confuse
  the two situations. The Wilpons will not sell this team and why should they? The seem to still believe in Omar Minaya and have given him a vote of confidence. What he does in this off season will be a true test of his skill in determining just where this team is. If he does not feel that the team is going to totally rebound from the injuries, he will look to trade some of the older but still effective veteran players for prospects and younger talent. A Pedro Feliciano is one such player. Carlos Beltran would bring back a lot in a trade and Angel Pagan has showed us that he could be an everday player. Our older players who have been hurt will either be resigned at lower monies or will be dealt/released. Carlos Delgado is one.

  Bottom line is there is only a month now left and the sooner it ends the better. What happens after the World Series and through the winter meetings will determine the thoughts of management and the next few years. GOOD LUCK TO US ALL FOR A BETTER FUTURE!

  AND LET’S GO METS!
  • Mike B. August 29, 2009 at 8:14 am

    Well said.
• Alex in CT August 27, 2009 at 11:39 am

  Get out while you still can! Spare yourself the decades of agony. Oh what am I saying, you’re doomed like the rest of us.
• METS62FAN August 27, 2009 at 1:42 pm

  SATISH, ONE BAD SEASON ONLY GETS U ONE TOP PROSPECT WHICH CHANGES NOTHING. IT DOESN’T EVEN GET U THAT IF YOU REFUSE TO OVERPAY/MEET AGENTS LIKE NORAS’ DEMANDS AS SIHNING BONUSES.
  • Satish Ram August 27, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    And it’s not even like a number one pick. It’ll be probably be around the 10th pick, which won’t be a major impact pick. Just a decent player.
• D.C. August 27, 2009 at 4:23 pm

  Man, the Mets are going to the dark ages.
  • Satish Ram August 27, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Basically, we’re screwed. :/
    • METS62FAN August 28, 2009 at 11:27 am

      SAT-RAM, POSSIBLY; BUT LET ME REMIND YOU OF”IT’S ALWAYS DARKEST BEFORE THE DAWN” PERHAPS THERE WILL BE A RENEWED VIGOR IN OUR RETURNEES HAVING MISSED WHAT THEY TOOK FOR GRANTED, ala CASTILLO IN ’09. PERHAPS.

      U R YOUNG & I CAUTION U THAT I’M USUALLY VERY OPTIMISTIC, HELL I EVEN ONCE THOUGHT PHILLIPS HAD A PLAN. I HAVE MY NYM PREFERENCES/PREJUDICES:
      BEST OWNER: DOUBLEDAY WORST OWNER: de ROULETTE
      BEST EXEC: CASHEN WORST EXEC:GRANT
      BEST FLD MGR: HODGES,JOHNSON,VALENTINE WORST:ALL OTHERS (EXCL STENGEL & HARRELSON)
      BEST PC:WALKER WORST PC: PETERSON (ANTI-WALKER)
      BEST PLAYER: SEAVER, OF COURSE
      BEST ROSTER: 86
      • Satish Ram August 28, 2009 at 5:20 pm

        It is always darkest before the dawn, but no one knows when that dawn is coming.
        • METS62FAN August 29, 2009 at 8:16 am

          RAM, NOT ALL QUESTIONS HAVE ANSWERS. UNFORTUNATLY, ALL ANY GM CAN DO IS HIS BEST TO ANTICIPATE & PREPARE, WHILE FOLLOWING HIS OWNER’S MANDATE. AS FANS, MOST OF US RELY UPON VATIOUS SOURCES PROVIDED BY SPORTSWRITERS, SOME OF WHICH ARE POSERS ALONG WITH OUR LOCAL SPORTS OUTLET, IF THERE IS ONE. MOST OF THESE ARE PROPAGANDA OUTLETS IN SUPPORT OF THE TEAM THEY FOCUS ON, EXCEPT WITH THE NYM. NO, IT ISN’T A “NYers DEMAND OBJECTIVITY” THING, JUST TUNE INTO ‘YES’ ONCE IN A WHILE. AS MET FANS WE HAVE NO TEAM SUPPORT HAVEN, I AM CONVINCED THE MISSION OF SNY IS TO DISCOURAGE FRED WILPON INTO RELINQUISHING MET CONTROL, WHILE DAMAGING OMAR, TO BOOT. SO AS TO DEPICT, THE ASCENDING NY MET POWER, JEFF, AS “THE HEROIC WHITE KNIGHT” COME TO SAVE ALL MET FANS. THE MEDIA’S POWER IS PRESNTLY HIGHLIGHTED BY THE CURRENT INHABITANTS OF THE WHITE HOUSE. BEING IN NC & CRAVING NY MET COVERAGE, I WAS IMMENSLY JOYFUL AT THE AVAILABILITY OF SNY VIA MY DIRECT-TV RECEPTION, LO & BEHOLD, I GET A MORE POSITIVE MET PERSPECTIVE FROM THE OPPONENTS GAME FEEDS. I CAN ONLY IMAGINE THE VICTRIOLE EMMANATING OUT OF FLAGSHIP, WFAN. WHILE OMAR MINAYA IS CERTAINLY NOT A POLISHED PUBLIC SPEAKER, HE ALSO IS NOT A TOTAL FOOL OR INCOMPETANT. HIS PUBLIC IMAGE IS CERTAINLY A CREATION OF THE MEDIA, WHOSE MAIN PURPOSE IN SPORTS COVERAGE IS TO CREATE EMOTIONAL RESPONSE BY ANY MEANS/TOPIC NECESSARY. THE BIGGEST ENEMY THE MEDIA HAS IS MEMORY & LOGIC. SNY, TO THIS OUTSIDE NY, MET FAN IS A CONSTANT STREAM OF PROGRAMING AIMED AT CREATING A NEGATIVE VIBE TOWARD THE HOME TEAM. THE PRE-GAME PROGRAMMING OF DNL, WHEELHOUSE, LOUDMOUTHS IS CONTRIVED WITH SO MUCH DISENGENUOUSNESS & NEGATIVE HYPERBOLE AS TO BE AS NON-SUPPORTIVE AS POSSIBLE. DNL, TOO RARELY IS POPULATED BY BASEBALL SCRIBES, MADDEN & HARPER; BUT ATTEMPTS TO PASS OFF A TV-CRITIC, BASKETNBALL BEATER, PHYSICAL TRAINING EXPERT & BOXING WRITER AS BONA-FIDE BASEBALL ANALYSTS MODERATED BY A “‘CHICKEN LITTLE’ POSER OF THE WEEK” TO BE FOLLOWED BY WHEELHOUSE FEATURING A DISENGENUOUS & ADMITTED NYY FAN BRANDON TIERNEY SETOFF AGAINST A DEBATE PALOOKA OF THE WEEK HOSTED BY ANOTHER NON-MET ENTHUIAST ALL THIS TO BE SUMMED UP BY THE APTLY TITLED SHOW “LOUDMOUTHS” FEATURING SNY’S VERSION OF PIXAR’S SHREK & DONKEY WHOSE SHARING OF BRAIN MATTER LEAVES EACH WITH LESS THAN HALF A MIND. WAKE UP PEOPLE, IS THIS A STRATEGIC PLAN FOR SUCCESS? ESPECIALY WHEN YOU SUPPOSEDLY CONTROL THE BY-PRODUCT? I STRONGLY BELIEVE FRED WILPON IS CERTAINLY NOT A FOOL, FOOLS DON’T BECOME MILLIONAIRES, THOSE THAT ARE, USUALLY ARE BORN TO IT (WIPON,STEINBRENNER,HILTON PRODGENY. MILLIONAIRES DO ACTUALLY DO FOOLISH THINGS AT TIMES WHICH DOESN’T MAKE THEM FOOLS. OMAR IS FRED’S MAN, NOT JEFF’S, OMAR IS JEFF’S ‘NANNY’ PUT IN PLACE BY FRED TO PROTECT JEFF FROM US & HIMSELF. RECALL I IMPLIED MEMORY IS OUR FRIEND WHILE STATING IT WAS THE MEDIA’S ENEMY. DO YOU REMEMBER THESE MET SCANDALS/FOPARS?:
          “VETERAN PLAYERS HAVING TOO MUCH INFLUENCE ON CLUB DECISIONS”
          RANDOLPH FIRED IN MIDDLE OF THE NEWS NIGHT
          BERNAZARD ACTS THE BAFOONISH BULLY
          KAZMIR DEALT FOR ZAMBRANO
          METS ACQUIRE KRIS BENSON
          METS SIGN KAZ MATSUI TO PLAY SS, MOVE REYES TO 2B
          THERE IS ONE & ONLY ONE COMMON THREAD LINKED TO CURRENT NYM FRONTOFFICE THAT APPLIES TO EACH & EVERY ONE OF THEM…JEFFREY WILPON.
          FRED KNOWS HIS SON NEEDS BOTH A JOB & A KEEPER. NYM COO IS THE JOB, OMAR MINAYA’S THE KEEPER.
          THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH REPLACING OMAR IS FINDING SOMEONE WHO WILL BE COMPETANT IN THE ACTUAL JOB, WHHILE TAKING FULL NON-TRANSPARENT RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL OF JEFF’S SCREWUPS. WHY WOULD MINAYA DO THAT? NYM GM IS MOST LIKELY HIS “DREAM” JOB EVER SINCE PHILLIPS’ TRIED TO IMPROVE HIS PERSONAL JOB SECURITY BY SHIPPING HIM OFF TO MLB FOR EXPOS JOB. MANY OF YOU MAY DISAGREE WITH MY CONCLUSIONS; I RELISH ANYONE(MASK), TO SUPPLY AN EQUALLY LOGICAL ONE FOR EACH OF THESE NYM BLUNDERS.
          WHILE NOT EVEN I CAN POSITIVLY SPIN THE BERNAZARD PRESSER, IS THERE ANY DOUBT THAT OMAR’S BEFUDDLED RUBIN ATTACK WAS MORE ANSWER TO THOSE CRITICS OF WHY A FULL INVESTIGATION WAS EMPLOYED INSTEAD OF RELYING ON PUBLISHED REPORTS? PROFEWSSIONALLY I WAS CONSIDERED AN EXCELLENT PUBLIC SPEAKER & I FREELY CONFESS THAT NOT EVERY ONE OF MY ATTEMPTS WERE CLEAR & CONCISE. UNFORTTYUNAtly IT SEEMS OMAR FELL PREY TO “NOT LISTENING TO HIMSELF” & CONTINUING TO DIG A BIGGER HOLE. THE SIMPLE FACT THAT FRED DID NOT PULL HIS PLUG, AS HE USUALLY RESPONDS TO NEG HEADLINES, PROVES HOW ESSENTIAL FRED VIEWS OMAR’S SHIELDING QUALITIES.
• D.C. August 28, 2009 at 1:31 pm

  Also since the Wilpons lost a boatload of money to Madoff’s fraud scheme. The Mets may not get the top free agents for the next 2 to 3 years.
  • theonlymaskman August 28, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Corect. It is pretty bleak. I think a rebuild program will require 2 to 3 years, maybe longer given the money bags are empty. However, mgmt has no urgency to even start. Until we start to take action, the dirction is downward. We may be the cellar dweller next year. I really think the wilpons are trying to restore their fortune by draining the Mets. Jeff essentially said that when the Madoff hit was originally announced. I hope they file bankruptcy and the sooner the better. Let’s have a court auction of the Mets! Baseball people will buy us and we’ll be better off.
    • METS62FAN August 29, 2009 at 9:31 am

      MASK, READ YOUR REF ARTICLE ON KAZMIR DEAL; BUT YOU CAN’T FAULT OMAR FOR NOT MAKING A DEAL THAT NEVER REACHED HIM, U OBVIOUSLY MISSED THIS PARAGRAPH,
      Because he was dealt before Aug. 31, Kazmir is eligible for postseason play with Los Angeles. He had to pass through waivers to be traded at this point in the season.
      BEING CLAIMED BY LAA MEANS HE NEVER REACHED US. THAT’S AS SILLY A CRITICISM AS YOUR PAST ONE FOR NOT ACQUIRING DUNNE BY 7/31, EVEN THOUGH NATS CHOSE TO DEAL JOHNSON & KEEP ADAM. YOUR VICTRIOLE TOWARD OMAR IS BEYOND LOGIC. MANY OF YOUR CRITICISMS ARE CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDABLE; BUT NOT ACQUIRING KAZMIR IS SIMPLY STRETCHING REASON BEYOND SILLY! ASSUMING HE HADN’Y KICKED THE TIRES BEFORE 7/31 IS UNFAIR & CERTAINLY UNBALANCED. THERE ARE ALWAYS POTENTIAL DEAL CONTACTS WE NEVER,EVER HEAR ABOUT. MANY THAT WE DO HEAR ARE QUICKLY FORGOTTEN LIKE OMAR’S CONTACTING SHAPIRO IN OFFSEASON RE. A DEAL FOR LEE & BEING INFORMED BY HIS SUPPOSED FRIEND HE WASN’T DEALING THE SP.
      MASK, ONE OF YOUR MOST VALID MET CRITICISMS IS REGARDING THE PALTRINESS OF OUR MILB CUPBOARD. SOMEHOW, YOU ASSUME AGAIN, THERE’S ENOUGH TALENT THERE TO OVERSHADOW WHAT ONE OF THE FINEST MILB SYSTEMS(ANGELS) CAN OFFER? MASK, THE ONE OMAR RELATED QUESTION YOU’VE NEVER ADDRESSED IS HOW DO U EXPECT ANY GM TO DO BETTER? I KNOW U THINK FRED CAN BE CAJOLED INTO DOING THINGS HE’S ALWAYS REFUSED TO DO; BUT GET REAL! HE PUBLICLY VOWED TO NEVER,EVER PAY A DIME IN LUXURY TAXES! HE’S A CAPITALIST CHILD OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION, WHO ARE U HIRING TO CHANGE ALL THAT? JESUS? BTW, HE AIN’T COMING BACK JUST TO FIX THE METS!LMAO!
• Ace August 29, 2009 at 10:06 am

  Mask, a bit of advice, this guy loves to joust and has apparently picked you as an opponent. He is not going to concede Omar and Jerry should go ALONG with the Wilpons. I am just going to ignore him going forward because he is apparently related to Omar or something. Notice how silent his keyboard is regarding the player injuries. Clearly his rose colored glasses are thick as coke bottles. (and yes i remember when they were sold in bottles)
  • METS62FAN August 29, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    ACE, THERE’S NO MORE LOGIC IN BLAMING OMAR FOR THE INJURIES SUSTAINED THAN THERE IS IN CREDITING HIM WITH THE MARVELOUS OVERALL HEALTH OF THE ‘CORE’ PLAYERS FROM ’05-’08. VERY,VERY FEW GAMES MISSED MINIMUM D/L TIME. HE EARNS NO CREDIT FROM ME FOR THAT THESE INJURIES ONE AT A TIME AS USUALLY OCCUR WERE EASILY HANDLED BUT AS I’VE POINTED OUT MANY,MANY TIMES, LOSING SO MANY CONCURRANTLY WAS THE ABSOLUTE WORST LUCK AS IN “THE PERFECT STORM”. THEY’VE NOT ONLY LOST THEIR PRIMARIES AT POSITIONS; BUT IN SOME CASES AS MANY AS 2 BACKUPS. 3 SS LOST: REYES,MARTINEZ,CORA 6 SP LOST: SANTANA,MAINE,PEREZ,REDDING(INITIALLY),NIEVE,NIESE. HOW DOES ANYONE PLAN FOR THAT OR ACCOMODATE THAT. NOT ENOUGH DEPTH IN UPPER MINORS? IN 5 YRS WITTHOUT MOSTLY FIRSTROUNDERS, IT’S UNDERSTANDABLE THE BEST TALENT HASN’T MOVED UP THAT FAR. AS IT IS EVANS & MURPHY WERE LATE ROUNDERS & THEY’VE PROVEN BARELY SERVICABLE AS TO BE EXPECTED. WHEN OWNERSHIP REFUSES TO SPEND OVER THE LUXURY LINE DESPITE THE NEEDS & REFUSES TO OFFER SIGNING BONUSES OUTSIDE OF RECOMMENDED GUIDELINES, YOU CAN’T POSSIBLY (USING LOGIC) BLAME ANYONE OTHER THAN OWNERSHIP. WAS 9/11 THE FAULT OF WTC MNGT? OF COURSE NOT. EITHER YOU PROVIDE THE NECESSARY TOOLS/ASSETS TO WIN OR YOU DON’T. IF YOU DON’T HOW CAN YOU WIN? ISN’T IT EMBARASSING THAT BORAS OFFERED BELTRAN TO NYY FOR LESS? WHY IS THAT? REPUTATION. NOT OMAR’S HE WASN’T IN JOB LONG ENOUGH. BORAS WAS ALREADY INSULTED/SANDBAGGED BY WILPONS IN THE A-ROD BS OF PHILLIPS FOLLOWING ORDERS. BTW, WHY DOES EVERYONE FORGET WILPON ORDERED PHILLIPS NOT TO DEAL FOR PIAZZA WHEN FL APPROACHED HIM? PHILLIPS QUICKLY WENT ON RECORD SUPPORTING THAT DUMB DECISION! THIS OWNERSHIP SUCKS & CONTROLS MUCH MORE THAN WE KNOW, “OMAR HAS “TOTAL CONTROL” IS A JOKE. DO U FORGET HOW THE WILPON SON IN JAPAN SCOUTED KAZ AND ELICITED HIS BROTHER’S ASSISTANCE IN INKING HIM AS A BETTER SS ALTERNATIVE TO REYES?
    ANYONE WHO BELIEVES FIRING OMAR IS A SOLUTION IS KIDDING THEMSELVES, HE’S THE FIRST GM TO CONVINCE FRED TO INVEST IN THIS CLUB TO POSSIBLY WIN. I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO LIST EVERY FREE AGENT EVER INKED BY THIS FRANCHISE AND COMPARE WHICH WERE THE MOST TALENTED. THE ONLY TIMES THE METS HAVE HAD RICH FARM SYSTEMS HAVE BEEN AFTER LANGUISHING IN THE CELLAR FOR CONSECUTIVE YEARS HOARDING EARLY DRAFTED PLAYERS, TRADING FEW FOR VALUABLE MLB ASSETS.
    WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER REBUILDING PROGRAM. BY THE TIME ONE STARTS TODAY’S BEST PLAYERS WILL BE WORTHLESS AS PAST THEIR PRIMES & BACK TO THE PHILLIPS MODEL OF ACQUIRING FORMER TOP PLAYERS. A STRONG FOUNDATION IS IN PLACE, WE NEED TO ACQUIRE GRITTIER BIT PLAYERS, WHICH FRED HAS PROVEN TO NOT WANT. IT’S NO COINCIDENCE BACKMAN’S NEVER GOTTEN AN HONEST CONSIDERATION OR WHY MOOKIE & CARTER FINALLY LOST PATIENCE. THESE ARE NOT UNRELATED PROBLEMS, OWNERSHIP WANTS SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT THAN WE DO. MLB’S APPROVED CHOICE OF BUYERS WILL ENSURE FRANCHISE MEDIOCRITY AS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST. THEY WILL NOT APPROVE ANOTHER HIGH-SPENDING OWNER IN A LUCRATIVE MKT.
  • theonlymaskman August 29, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Ace, Thanks for the advice. It’s become a silly broken record and no sense continuing to wind it up for more rpm’s.