Comments on: Jump Off the Lowe Train. Please. http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jump-off-the-lowe-train-please Mon, 13 Feb 2012 01:11:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ace http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26678 Ace Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:33:01 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26678 look, your continuing to defend Omar is both senseless and exhausting. No way the state of the organization can be attributed solely to his predecessors. I have said, and again will say that the Wilpon's are just as much to blame for the situation, but they cannot be fired and replaced so easily. I even agree that they need to open the checkbook wider if they want to be a contender. However, the list is very, very long of things that happened ON Omar's watch. I really don't know how you continue to justify your position that this is not Omar's fault, but I am done with thi senseless joust. look, your continuing to defend Omar is both senseless and exhausting. No way the state of the organization can be attributed solely to his predecessors. I have said, and again will say that the Wilpon’s are just as much to blame for the situation, but they cannot be fired and replaced so easily. I even agree that they need to open the checkbook wider if they want to be a contender. However, the list is very, very long of things that happened ON Omar’s watch. I really don’t know how you continue to justify your position that this is not Omar’s fault, but I am done with thi senseless joust.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26669 METS62FAN Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:59:11 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26669 ACE, COULDN'T FIND YOUR REBUTTAL RE. 5 YRS LONG ENOUGH TO REBUILD HAD OMAR PAID ATTENTION DON'T KNOW HOW U'D EXPECT TO BUILD SO FAST WITHOUT FIRST ROUND TALENT & OWNERSHIPS REFUSAL TO PAY BONUSES OUTSIDE OF COMMISSIONER'S PARITY GUIDELINES. AS TO EXEC ATTENTION, THERE WAS A VP IN CHARGE OF PLAYER DEVELOPMENT WHOSE JOB WAS "PAYING ATTENTIO" WITH OR WITHOUT SHIRT. LOL. REMEMBER, THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE MINORS OF ANY NOTE ESP AFTER PETERSON CLEANED OUT THE MALCONTENTS THAT BALKED AT HIS METHODS (KAZMIR,BANNISTER,LINDSTRUM, BELL, RING,OWENS) BUILD ON WHAT? WITH WHAT? ANSWER THOSE 2 SIMPLE QUETIONS. BOSOX & NYY BOTH ARE SIGNING FIRST ROUND TALENTS BY AGREEING TO HIGH BONUSES OUTSIDE OF GUIDELINES IRRESPECTIVE OF DRAFT POSITION. LOOK IT UP! CONSIDER WE GOT ZERO TOP PROSPECTS BY DEALING AWAY ALOMAR,BENITEZ,BURNITZ,VENTURA,ZEILLE, WHO DOES THAT? DUQUEETTE ORDERED BY JEFF TO NOT INCLUDE ANY CASH THAT MAY HAVE INCREASED RQUALITY OF RETURNS. ONCE MORE ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. ACE, COULDN’T FIND YOUR REBUTTAL RE. 5 YRS LONG ENOUGH TO REBUILD HAD OMAR PAID ATTENTION
DON’T KNOW HOW U’D EXPECT TO BUILD SO FAST WITHOUT FIRST ROUND TALENT & OWNERSHIPS REFUSAL TO PAY BONUSES OUTSIDE OF COMMISSIONER’S PARITY GUIDELINES. AS TO EXEC ATTENTION, THERE WAS A VP IN CHARGE OF PLAYER DEVELOPMENT WHOSE JOB WAS “PAYING ATTENTIO” WITH OR WITHOUT SHIRT. LOL.
REMEMBER, THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE MINORS OF ANY NOTE ESP AFTER PETERSON CLEANED OUT THE MALCONTENTS THAT BALKED AT HIS METHODS (KAZMIR,BANNISTER,LINDSTRUM, BELL, RING,OWENS) BUILD ON WHAT? WITH WHAT?
ANSWER THOSE 2 SIMPLE QUETIONS. BOSOX & NYY BOTH ARE SIGNING FIRST ROUND TALENTS BY AGREEING TO HIGH BONUSES OUTSIDE OF GUIDELINES IRRESPECTIVE OF DRAFT POSITION. LOOK IT UP! CONSIDER WE GOT ZERO TOP PROSPECTS BY DEALING AWAY ALOMAR,BENITEZ,BURNITZ,VENTURA,ZEILLE, WHO DOES THAT? DUQUEETTE ORDERED BY JEFF TO NOT INCLUDE ANY CASH THAT MAY HAVE INCREASED RQUALITY OF RETURNS. ONCE MORE ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.

]]> By: Ace http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26650 Ace Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:40:01 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26650 You know METSFAN, not exactly sure what post of mine you are refer to but here, maybe this will help you understand: I NEVER SAID THAT OMAR COULD REPLACE AN ENTIRE ROSTER FOR 14M, DID I? I DO FEEL THAT THE FARM SYSTEM COULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER IN AS LITTLE AS 5 YEARS, IF HE WOULD HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO IT THAT IS. APPARENTLY YOU BELIEVE OMAR HAS DONE A GREAT JOB, SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE SUCCINT AND USED LESS WORDS THAN YOUR DRY RAMBLING POSTS CONTINUE TO BE. BECAUSE NO WAY ANY LOGICAL ARGUMENT COULD BE MADE TO SUPPORT YOUR OPINION OF HIM. WHEN A PERSON TAKES ON A ROLE SUCH AS GM, THEY BECOME THE PLACE WHERE THE BUCK SHOULD STOP. THE METS ARE A HOT MESS, THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION AND OMAR IS THE REASON. YOU APPRENTLY HAVE THE SAME ROSE COLORED GLASSES THAT ALLOW YOU TO SEE HOW GREAT A JOB THE MANAGEMENT HAS DONE. AGAIN I WILL SAY, I DON'T JUST SAY FIRE THESE GUYS FOR THE SAKE OF IT, THEY HAVE EARNED THEIR TRIP TO THE DOOR. You know METSFAN, not exactly sure what post of mine you are refer to but here, maybe this will help you understand: I NEVER SAID THAT OMAR COULD REPLACE AN ENTIRE ROSTER FOR 14M, DID I? I DO FEEL THAT THE FARM SYSTEM COULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER IN AS LITTLE AS 5 YEARS, IF HE WOULD HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO IT THAT IS. APPARENTLY YOU BELIEVE OMAR HAS DONE A GREAT JOB, SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE SUCCINT AND USED LESS WORDS THAN YOUR DRY RAMBLING POSTS CONTINUE TO BE. BECAUSE NO WAY ANY LOGICAL ARGUMENT COULD BE MADE TO SUPPORT YOUR OPINION OF HIM. WHEN A PERSON TAKES ON A ROLE SUCH AS GM, THEY BECOME THE PLACE WHERE THE BUCK SHOULD STOP. THE METS ARE A HOT MESS, THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION AND OMAR IS THE REASON. YOU APPRENTLY HAVE THE SAME ROSE COLORED GLASSES THAT ALLOW YOU TO SEE HOW GREAT A JOB THE MANAGEMENT HAS DONE. AGAIN I WILL SAY, I DON’T JUST SAY FIRE THESE GUYS FOR THE SAKE OF IT, THEY HAVE EARNED THEIR TRIP TO THE DOOR.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26637 METS62FAN Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:10:58 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26637 CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION ACE, I'M ASSUMING U OMITTED THE DOUBLE 'S' FROM YR MONIKER SINCE OBVIOUSLY U DIDN'T READ MY PRIOR POST ON THE TOPIC THAT ADDRESSED ALL OF YOUR MISGUIDED ACCUSATIONS. WAS IT TOO MANY WORDS? NOT SUCCINCT ENOUGH? IF U ARE ANALYZING AN ENTIRE FRANCHISE'S ISSUES, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SO IN SOUND-BITE FASHION. IF U TRULY BELIEVE AN ENTIRE FARM SYSTEM CAN BE BUILT IN LESS THAN 5 YRS OR THAT AN ENTIRE ROSTER CAN BE REPLACED FOR 14M, THEN PUT THOSE DOUBLE S's BACK, U CAN THEN EMPLOY CAPSLOCK AS A** IN CAPS WOULD CERTAINLY BE APPOROPRIATE! CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
ACE, I’M ASSUMING U OMITTED THE DOUBLE ‘S’ FROM YR MONIKER SINCE OBVIOUSLY U DIDN’T READ MY PRIOR POST ON THE TOPIC THAT ADDRESSED ALL OF YOUR MISGUIDED ACCUSATIONS. WAS IT TOO MANY WORDS? NOT SUCCINCT ENOUGH? IF U ARE ANALYZING AN ENTIRE FRANCHISE’S ISSUES, IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SO IN SOUND-BITE FASHION. IF U TRULY BELIEVE AN ENTIRE FARM SYSTEM CAN BE BUILT IN LESS THAN 5 YRS OR THAT AN ENTIRE ROSTER CAN BE REPLACED FOR 14M, THEN PUT THOSE DOUBLE S’s BACK, U CAN THEN EMPLOY CAPSLOCK AS A** IN CAPS WOULD CERTAINLY BE APPOROPRIATE!

]]> By: Ace http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26551 Ace Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:33:40 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26551 Alan, please let me borrow those rose colored glasses so I can like Omar and feel good about his choices, or lack thereof. What you should have said is if THAT many mets fans think Omar is to blame, there might be something to it, might....Your post is very interesting because you name several bad decisions Omar has made but you say they are not his fault? notibly you fail to mention the Oliver Perez situation, or the lack of depth in the farm system, or the lack of leadership and the list could certainly go on, WAY on. Definately a change needs to be made, and to say that those of us that think Omar should be shown the door should "leave the flock of the “Faithful” and be Yankee fans. There they can join the fans who are front running fools who don’t understand theis game at all!" is just the easy way out of a difficult realization that many have made about Omar. Alan, please let me borrow those rose colored glasses so I can like Omar and feel good about his choices, or lack thereof. What you should have said is if THAT many mets fans think Omar is to blame, there might be something to it, might….Your post is very interesting because you name several bad decisions Omar has made but you say they are not his fault? notibly you fail to mention the Oliver Perez situation, or the lack of depth in the farm system, or the lack of leadership and the list could certainly go on, WAY on. Definately a change needs to be made, and to say that those of us that think Omar should be shown the door should “leave the flock of the “Faithful” and be Yankee fans. There they can join the fans who are front running fools who don’t understand theis game at all!” is just the easy way out of a difficult realization that many have made about Omar.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26550 METS62FAN Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:30:19 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26550 MASK, DO YOU REALY BELIEVE THE DODGERS WOULDN'T HAVE PREFERRED TO GAMBLE ON OLLIE RATHER THAN TAKE ANOTHER TURN WITH WOLF, WHOM THEY'D ALREADY DISCARDED TO SD THE YR BEFORE? YOU KEEP DRINKING ALL THIS KOOL-AIDE BEING FORCED FED BY JEFF'S SNY & NYPRESSCORPS. EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE LACK OF HIGH LEVEL PROSPECTS IS OMAR'S FAULT. STARTING FROM NOTHING LEFT BY HIS PREDECESSORS & LIMITED TO SECOND ROUNDERS AT BEST, HOW DO U PROVIDE MAJOR LEAGUE READY TALENT IN LESS THAN 5 YRS? WHO ELSE IS DOING IT? REMEMBER YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO EXCEED THE COMMISSIONER'S SIGNING BONUS GUIDELINES OF SLOTTING. SOMEHOW THER'S A MEMORY REDUCTION AGENT IN THAT KOOLAIDE. DO YOU FORGET ALL THE TEAMS WE STARTED WITH POPULATED WITH A MULTITUDE OF PLAYERS 30+(VENTURA, ZEILE, VAUGHN, LIETER) WHEN THE BEST CALLUP WAS TY "SHREK" WIGGINTON? FUNNY, FORGOTTEN ARE ALL THE THIRD PLACE & FOURTH PLACE FINISHES THAT WERE "THE BEST TO BE EXPECTED" THE NYM HAVE PRETTY CONSISTANTLY BEEN AT OR NEAR THE TOP OF THE NL IN PAYROLL THROUGHOUT PHILLIPS',DUQUETTE'S & MINAYA'S TENURE. YET SOMEHOW STEVE PHILLIPS WHO'S CLUBS MANAGED ONLY 2 WILDCARD BERTH'S WITH ONE THIRD, ONE FOURTH & 2 FIFTH PLACE FINISHES SUCCEEDING HIS ONLY WS APPEARANCE PRIOR TO MINAYA'S 1 THIRD, 1 FIRST & 2 SECONDS. BTW, PHILLIPS ATTAINED MUCH OF THAT DISMAL SHOWING RELYING UPON BOBBY V AT THE FIELD HELM. THE FRANCHISE PRETTY MUCH STUNK BEFORE HIRING OMAR. THEY WERE IRRELEVANT FROM DAY 1 OF MOST SEASONS WITH MOST OF US KIDDING OURSELVES. WHAT HAS OMAR DONE LATELY? PRIOR TO THIS ACT OF GOD DISMEMBERMENT THE FRANCHISE CERTAINLY WAS RELEVANT & TALK OF POST SEASON PLAY WASN'T MET WITH DISDAIN & GUFFAWS BY OPPONENTS. MOST LOGICAL PEOPLE ACCEPT "ACTS OF GOD", HELL EVEN HEARTLESS INSURANCE COMPANIES RECOGIZE THEM AS UNAVOIDABLE. MASK, DO YOU REALY BELIEVE THE DODGERS WOULDN’T HAVE PREFERRED TO GAMBLE ON OLLIE RATHER THAN TAKE ANOTHER TURN WITH WOLF, WHOM THEY’D ALREADY DISCARDED TO SD THE YR BEFORE? YOU KEEP DRINKING ALL THIS KOOL-AIDE BEING FORCED FED BY JEFF’S SNY & NYPRESSCORPS.
EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE LACK OF HIGH LEVEL PROSPECTS IS OMAR’S FAULT. STARTING FROM NOTHING LEFT BY HIS PREDECESSORS & LIMITED TO SECOND ROUNDERS AT BEST, HOW DO U PROVIDE MAJOR LEAGUE READY TALENT IN LESS THAN 5 YRS? WHO ELSE IS DOING IT? REMEMBER YOU AREN’T ALLOWED TO EXCEED THE COMMISSIONER’S SIGNING BONUS GUIDELINES OF SLOTTING.
SOMEHOW THER’S A MEMORY REDUCTION AGENT IN THAT KOOLAIDE. DO YOU FORGET ALL THE TEAMS WE STARTED WITH POPULATED WITH A MULTITUDE OF PLAYERS 30+(VENTURA, ZEILE, VAUGHN, LIETER) WHEN THE BEST CALLUP WAS TY “SHREK” WIGGINTON? FUNNY, FORGOTTEN ARE ALL THE THIRD PLACE & FOURTH PLACE FINISHES THAT WERE “THE BEST TO BE EXPECTED” THE NYM HAVE PRETTY CONSISTANTLY BEEN AT OR NEAR THE TOP OF THE NL IN PAYROLL THROUGHOUT PHILLIPS’,DUQUETTE’S & MINAYA’S TENURE. YET SOMEHOW STEVE PHILLIPS WHO’S CLUBS MANAGED ONLY 2 WILDCARD BERTH’S WITH ONE THIRD, ONE FOURTH & 2 FIFTH PLACE FINISHES SUCCEEDING HIS ONLY WS APPEARANCE PRIOR TO MINAYA’S 1 THIRD, 1 FIRST & 2 SECONDS. BTW, PHILLIPS ATTAINED MUCH OF THAT DISMAL SHOWING RELYING UPON BOBBY V AT THE FIELD HELM. THE FRANCHISE PRETTY MUCH STUNK BEFORE HIRING OMAR. THEY WERE IRRELEVANT FROM DAY 1 OF MOST SEASONS WITH MOST OF US KIDDING OURSELVES. WHAT HAS OMAR DONE LATELY? PRIOR TO THIS ACT OF GOD DISMEMBERMENT THE FRANCHISE CERTAINLY WAS RELEVANT & TALK OF POST SEASON PLAY WASN’T MET WITH DISDAIN & GUFFAWS BY OPPONENTS. MOST LOGICAL PEOPLE ACCEPT “ACTS OF GOD”, HELL EVEN HEARTLESS INSURANCE COMPANIES RECOGIZE THEM AS UNAVOIDABLE.

]]> By: alan http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26546 alan Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:32 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26546 A great posting by Jessup....I cannot believe that so many ? fans blame Omar Minaya for the problems that the Mets have. Surely he did not handle the Adam Rubin thing well. Let us not forget that while Pedro may not have delivered the amount of wins vs the money he was paid, he did change the face of this team and that attracted others to come here too. Beltran, Delgado, Wagner to name a few. Signing free agents like Moises Alou is always a gamble and Moises was a good hitter for the Mets when healthy. Omar signed Castillo hoping he would regain his form and he has done so albeit a year later than we would have liked. We needed to revamp a weak and injured bullpen following the injury to Wagner and Omar signed K-Rod. He got rid of an over rated and problem child player like Lastings Millidge for Church and Schneider and you can't blame Omar for Ryan's concussions. So, now we have Frenchy and so far this looks like a great trade and perhaps a steal...If the fans who are under the opinion that the Mets have failed because of Omar Minaya they should leave the flock of the "Faithful" and be Yankee fans. There they can join the fans who are front running fools who don't understand theis game at all! A great posting by Jessup….I cannot believe that so many ? fans blame Omar Minaya for the problems that the Mets have. Surely he did not handle the Adam Rubin thing well. Let us not forget that while Pedro may not have delivered the amount of wins vs the money he was paid, he did change the face of this team and that attracted others to come here too. Beltran, Delgado, Wagner to name a few. Signing free agents like Moises Alou is always a gamble and Moises was a good hitter for the Mets when healthy. Omar signed Castillo hoping he would regain his form and he has done so albeit a year later than we would have liked. We needed to revamp a weak and injured bullpen following the injury to Wagner and Omar signed K-Rod. He got rid of an over rated and problem child player like Lastings Millidge for Church and Schneider and you can’t blame Omar for Ryan’s concussions. So, now we have Frenchy and so far this looks like a great trade and perhaps a steal…If the fans who are under the opinion that the Mets have failed because of Omar Minaya they should leave the flock of the “Faithful” and be Yankee fans. There they can join the fans who are front running fools who don’t understand theis game at all!

]]> By: Satish Ram http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26534 Satish Ram Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:53:05 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26534 The Mets shouldn't have invested that much in Oliver Perez, but I would've invested in Perez over Lowe. Lowe wanted too much length on his contract, and i don't like offering four year deals to 36-year olds, where they'll be making the most money when they're least effective. Either way, there are some decent SP's on the market this season and I agree with Jessep's reasoning that we should just "Jump off the Lowe Train". The Mets shouldn’t have invested that much in Oliver Perez, but I would’ve invested in Perez over Lowe. Lowe wanted too much length on his contract, and i don’t like offering four year deals to 36-year olds, where they’ll be making the most money when they’re least effective.

Either way, there are some decent SP’s on the market this season and I agree with Jessep’s reasoning that we should just “Jump off the Lowe Train”.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26532 METS62FAN Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:42:05 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26532 CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION JAMES, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE METS COULD'VE GOTTEN LOWE FOR THE SAME 15M? REMEMBER ATL GOT HIM FOR THAT AS THE ONLY TEAM SEEMINGLY INTERESTED IN DOING THAT 4th YR. VERY REMINISCIENT OF HOW WE GOT PEDRO. DEFINITLY A GAMBLE GIVING THAT 4th YR AND THAT GAMBLE CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE FOR A THIRD-FOURTH PLACE TEAM NOT A CONTENDER. ASSUMING OMAR HAD USE OF A CRYSTAL BALL & KNEW OLLIE WOULD SUCK THIS BADLY. REMEMNER, IF ATL GOT LOWE FOR 4/60 WITH BORAS AS THE BROKER THAT WOULD BECOME A STARTING FIGURE FOR NYM TO INK HIM. CONSEVATIVELY, BORAS LIKELY WOULD'VE DEMANDED MORE MOOLAH SINCE YRS WERE MAXED @ 4. LET'S STOP KIDDING OURSELVES INTO BELIEVING PRICES FOR US WOULD BE THE SAME AS PRICE SET FOR STL,ATL,MLW,ETC. WHETHER THAT'S IN TRADES OR CONTRACTS. IF I WERE GMing ANOTHER TEAM & OMAR CALLED ME ABOUT ONE OF MY PLAYERS, I'D START BY DEMANDING WRIGHT, JUST TO SEE HOW DESPERATE HE WAS & IF HE DIDN'T HANG UP, I NEGOTIATE SLOWLY DOWN FROM THERE TO SEE WHAT WAS "THE MOST" I COULD GET. THIS TYPE OF NEGOTIATING IS CERTAINLY WHY OMAR WAS RIGHT TO PULL BACK SHEFF INSTEAD OF TAKING DESPERATE RETURN AS SOME SAY. IF HE'D DONE THAT HIS POSITION WOULD BE WEAKENED RE. DEALING VILLY SINCE, IN THIS CVASE, BOSTON WOULDN'T OFFER OTHER THAN THE MINIMUM. NOW, THEY MUST CONSIDER OMAR MAY ALSO PULL HIM BACK IF THEIR OFFER ISN'T ACCEPTABLE. NEGOTIATIONS, BARTERING IS SO RARELY BLACK & WHITE, OFTEN THEY ARE GRAY, SOMETIMES IN FULL TECHNICOLOR. WHILE THE LOWE, NEGOTIATIONS WERE IN FULL SWING, I READ A RUMOR EMANATING OUT OF L.A. SPECULATING LOWE HAD AN ALCOHOL ISSUE. WOLF WAS AVAILABLE, YET THERE MUST BE SOME REASON HE NEVER STICKS ANYWHERE WHILE LHP IS PREMIUM. WOULD ANYONE TRUST HIM Vs PHL FOR MULTI STARTS? OLLIE'S PRECURRENT YR EFFECTIVNESS Vs PHL & ATL WAS A + FOR HIM AS WAS IT SEEMED LIKE WARTHEN'S LATE '08 EFFECT WAS A STRONG POSITIVE. GARLAND IN THE EAST DIV EWAS NO "MUST SEE". SHEETS IS WHERE FOR '09? IMAGINE IF THOSE FOLKS GOT THEIR WAY. OLLIE AT LEAST DSTARTED IN '09, EVEN IF BADLY, THOSE 3 Ws WOULDN'T HAVE COME BY WAY OF SHEETS. THE TRUE QUASTION ISN'T THE USUAL HINDSIGHT EQUIVICATOR OF "IF I ONLY KNEW THEN, EHAT I KNOW NOW" BUT ASK THIS, "IF I ONLY KNEW NOW, WHAT I KNEW THEN? U STILL CAN'T HONESTLY SAY OLLIE EWAS A DEFINITE BUST. HAS HE TURNED HIMSELF INTO ONE? CERTAINLY! THANKS WBC! WHO COULD'VE KNOWN HE'D DISCARD ALL OF WARTEN'S CHANGES? PERSONALLY, I'VE NEVER SEEN SO MANY TALENTED HEADCASES IN MY LIFE. JUDSGING ONLY BY PHYSICAL ABILITIES, PEREZ, PELFREY, MAINE ARE ALL COVETED TALENTS. UNFORTUNATLY, MAINE HAS NO SELF CONFIDENCE & ALWAYS DOWNPLAYS HIS ABILITIES, WHILE OVERSTATING HIS OPPONENTS', PELFREY DOESN'T SEEM ABLE TO FORMULATE/ALTER HIS OWN GAMEPLAN BASED UPON WHAT IS OR ISN'T WORKING THAT DAY AND OLLIE SEEMS INCAPABLE OF CONCENTRATING ON 2 THINGS AT ONCE, MECHANICS & STRIKEZONE. I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN HOW WE GOT SUCH CEREBRAL SCEWUPS, PERHAPS HIRING A CEREBRAL GURU CAUSED THIS PITCHING "HELTER-SKELTER" CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
JAMES, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE METS COULD’VE GOTTEN LOWE FOR THE SAME 15M? REMEMBER ATL GOT HIM FOR THAT AS THE ONLY TEAM SEEMINGLY INTERESTED IN DOING THAT 4th YR. VERY REMINISCIENT OF HOW WE GOT PEDRO. DEFINITLY A GAMBLE GIVING THAT 4th YR AND THAT GAMBLE CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE FOR A THIRD-FOURTH PLACE TEAM NOT A CONTENDER. ASSUMING OMAR HAD USE OF A CRYSTAL BALL & KNEW OLLIE WOULD SUCK THIS BADLY. REMEMNER, IF ATL GOT LOWE FOR 4/60 WITH BORAS AS THE BROKER THAT WOULD BECOME A STARTING FIGURE FOR NYM TO INK HIM. CONSEVATIVELY, BORAS LIKELY WOULD’VE DEMANDED MORE MOOLAH SINCE YRS WERE MAXED @ 4. LET’S STOP KIDDING OURSELVES INTO BELIEVING PRICES FOR US WOULD BE THE SAME AS PRICE SET FOR STL,ATL,MLW,ETC. WHETHER THAT’S IN TRADES OR CONTRACTS. IF I WERE GMing ANOTHER TEAM & OMAR CALLED ME ABOUT ONE OF MY PLAYERS, I’D START BY DEMANDING WRIGHT, JUST TO SEE HOW DESPERATE HE WAS & IF HE DIDN’T HANG UP, I NEGOTIATE SLOWLY DOWN FROM THERE TO SEE WHAT WAS “THE MOST” I COULD GET.
THIS TYPE OF NEGOTIATING IS CERTAINLY WHY OMAR WAS RIGHT TO PULL BACK SHEFF INSTEAD OF TAKING DESPERATE RETURN AS SOME SAY. IF HE’D DONE THAT HIS POSITION WOULD BE WEAKENED RE. DEALING VILLY SINCE, IN THIS CVASE, BOSTON WOULDN’T OFFER OTHER THAN THE MINIMUM. NOW, THEY MUST CONSIDER OMAR MAY ALSO PULL HIM BACK IF THEIR OFFER ISN’T ACCEPTABLE. NEGOTIATIONS, BARTERING IS SO RARELY BLACK & WHITE, OFTEN THEY ARE GRAY, SOMETIMES IN FULL TECHNICOLOR.
WHILE THE LOWE, NEGOTIATIONS WERE IN FULL SWING, I READ A RUMOR EMANATING OUT OF L.A. SPECULATING LOWE HAD AN ALCOHOL ISSUE. WOLF WAS AVAILABLE, YET THERE MUST BE SOME REASON HE NEVER STICKS ANYWHERE WHILE LHP IS PREMIUM. WOULD ANYONE TRUST HIM Vs PHL FOR MULTI STARTS? OLLIE’S PRECURRENT YR EFFECTIVNESS Vs PHL & ATL WAS A + FOR HIM AS WAS IT SEEMED LIKE WARTHEN’S LATE ’08 EFFECT WAS A STRONG POSITIVE. GARLAND IN THE EAST DIV EWAS NO “MUST SEE”. SHEETS IS WHERE FOR ’09? IMAGINE IF THOSE FOLKS GOT THEIR WAY. OLLIE AT LEAST DSTARTED IN ’09, EVEN IF BADLY, THOSE 3 Ws WOULDN’T HAVE COME BY WAY OF SHEETS. THE TRUE QUASTION ISN’T THE USUAL HINDSIGHT EQUIVICATOR OF “IF I ONLY KNEW THEN, EHAT I KNOW NOW” BUT ASK THIS, “IF I ONLY KNEW NOW, WHAT I KNEW THEN? U STILL CAN’T HONESTLY SAY OLLIE EWAS A DEFINITE BUST.
HAS HE TURNED HIMSELF INTO ONE? CERTAINLY! THANKS WBC! WHO COULD’VE KNOWN HE’D DISCARD ALL OF WARTEN’S CHANGES? PERSONALLY, I’VE NEVER SEEN SO MANY TALENTED HEADCASES IN MY LIFE. JUDSGING ONLY BY PHYSICAL ABILITIES, PEREZ, PELFREY, MAINE ARE ALL COVETED TALENTS. UNFORTUNATLY, MAINE HAS NO SELF CONFIDENCE & ALWAYS DOWNPLAYS HIS ABILITIES, WHILE OVERSTATING HIS OPPONENTS’, PELFREY DOESN’T SEEM ABLE TO FORMULATE/ALTER HIS OWN GAMEPLAN BASED UPON WHAT IS OR ISN’T WORKING THAT DAY AND OLLIE SEEMS INCAPABLE OF CONCENTRATING ON 2 THINGS AT ONCE, MECHANICS & STRIKEZONE. I DON’T KNOW FOR CERTAIN HOW WE GOT SUCH CEREBRAL SCEWUPS, PERHAPS HIRING A CEREBRAL GURU CAUSED THIS PITCHING “HELTER-SKELTER”

]]> By: sarge http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26491 sarge Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:37:51 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26491 Mets could of signed a pitcher like Wolf for one year, as he got from LA, and let Ollie try and sit out or take less money. I agree that Omar was bidding against himself. He saw this with K Rod and held the line, why couldn't he do the same with Ollie? He let Boras pick his pocket and I hope next time he deal with Scott that he remembers this deal and makes Boras pay for it. What an embarrasment today by Perez. What mental, physical, religious or other approach other than guild for stealing money can be used to get Ollie pitching the way he should. I didn't want Lowe at those years either but again, Omar outbid himself and now this contract will tie down the Mets next year. At least Castillo is earning his contract this year and maybe he can carry it over to next year but you never know with this aging players. Mets could of signed a pitcher like Wolf for one year, as he got from LA, and let Ollie try and sit out or take less money. I agree that Omar was bidding against himself. He saw this with K Rod and held the line, why couldn’t he do the same with Ollie? He let Boras pick his pocket and I hope next time he deal with Scott that he remembers this deal and makes Boras pay for it. What an embarrasment today by Perez. What mental, physical, religious or other approach other than guild for stealing money can be used to get Ollie pitching the way he should. I didn’t want Lowe at those years either but again, Omar outbid himself and now this contract will tie down the Mets next year. At least Castillo is earning his contract this year and maybe he can carry it over to next year but you never know with this aging players.

]]> By: James K. http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26470 James K. Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:54:49 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26470 It's also worth noting that Lowe has the 2nd best groundball % of any pitcher in baseball and the 6th lowest HR/9 ratio. Groundballs = good, not giving up home runs = good. It’s also worth noting that Lowe has the 2nd best groundball % of any pitcher in baseball and the 6th lowest HR/9 ratio. Groundballs = good, not giving up home runs = good.

]]> By: Ace http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26464 Ace Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:41:52 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26464 I never said Lowe was the guy for that multi year deal. My contention is that Ollie was NOT worth that multi year deal as you apparently believe. I'm glad you believe it was such a good investment, it has certainly paid off for the organization hasn't it. That was also a rhetorical question. Another comment I agreed with is we had no reason to pay him so well, he wasn't worth it and this year's performance proves that, and we had no competetion in signing him. I know that when the contract details were released I was not the only one with a big question mark in my head. Omar let his agent sell him wolf tickets. Just another reason in a VERY long list of reasons Omar should be released. Can you really argue that he has done a good job? I never said Lowe was the guy for that multi year deal. My contention is that Ollie was NOT worth that multi year deal as you apparently believe. I’m glad you believe it was such a good investment, it has certainly paid off for the organization hasn’t it. That was also a rhetorical question. Another comment I agreed with is we had no reason to pay him so well, he wasn’t worth it and this year’s performance proves that, and we had no competetion in signing him. I know that when the contract details were released I was not the only one with a big question mark in my head. Omar let his agent sell him wolf tickets. Just another reason in a VERY long list of reasons Omar should be released. Can you really argue that he has done a good job?

]]> By: Ace http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26460 Ace Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:35:20 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26460 Agreed! Omar is in the driver's seat over Wagner, going to be interesting what he does with it. Although I feel we should keep him, and go after building the starting rotation. I mean really, any decent addition will help. I also believe we should be building the younger team members up; however the Mets are in bad need of someone that will step up and be a leader of this group. It will NOT be Omar or Manuel apparently. But the Mets need that guy in the clubhouse that is the clear leader, spokesman, example, etc. that person is usually a more experienced player, even if it is a 30+ year old guy, that role needs to be filled in a very bad way. the Met's need the kind of player that makes everyone else step up their game. Does anyone else think this is a person that is sorely missed in the clubhouse? Over the past few years witnessing this team I love so much choke, let injuries bog us down, it is clearly de-motivating to me, much less this team. But if we had that player with the dynamic attitude in the dugout, I believe this would be a big shot to our dynamic as a team. I don't even mean an all-star (even though that would be great), he doesn't have to be a franchise player, just one with that leadership attitude. Agreed! Omar is in the driver’s seat over Wagner, going to be interesting what he does with it. Although I feel we should keep him, and go after building the starting rotation. I mean really, any decent addition will help. I also believe we should be building the younger team members up; however the Mets are in bad need of someone that will step up and be a leader of this group. It will NOT be Omar or Manuel apparently. But the Mets need that guy in the clubhouse that is the clear leader, spokesman, example, etc. that person is usually a more experienced player, even if it is a 30+ year old guy, that role needs to be filled in a very bad way. the Met’s need the kind of player that makes everyone else step up their game. Does anyone else think this is a person that is sorely missed in the clubhouse? Over the past few years witnessing this team I love so much choke, let injuries bog us down, it is clearly de-motivating to me, much less this team. But if we had that player with the dynamic attitude in the dugout, I believe this would be a big shot to our dynamic as a team. I don’t even mean an all-star (even though that would be great), he doesn’t have to be a franchise player, just one with that leadership attitude.

]]> By: Jessep http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26454 Jessep Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:26:45 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26454 Did I say it was a GOOD move? No. In terms of Lowe for 4 yrs 15 mil per, and Ollie at 3 yrs for less $... Ollie is a wiser investment. What other SP was avail to the Mets that would have plugged a gap? If the Mets signed Jon Garland everybody would have flipped out. You can't have it both ways. You can't say "we need to sign a pitcher" and then when the Mets sign the only one worth a multi year deal, flip out. Fact is, for 3 more years Derek Lowe has a spot in the Braves rotation. There is absolutely no way that would have flown here in NY and you know it. Did I say it was a GOOD move? No. In terms of Lowe for 4 yrs 15 mil per, and Ollie at 3 yrs for less $… Ollie is a wiser investment. What other SP was avail to the Mets that would have plugged a gap? If the Mets signed Jon Garland everybody would have flipped out. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “we need to sign a pitcher” and then when the Mets sign the only one worth a multi year deal, flip out.

Fact is, for 3 more years Derek Lowe has a spot in the Braves rotation. There is absolutely no way that would have flown here in NY and you know it.

]]> By: theonlymaskman http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26453 theonlymaskman Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:14:11 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26453 I think the problem is not that Omar signed Ollie, but rather the terms he signed him to. Omar allowed Boras to muscle him into a bad contract. The $36 mil over 3 yrs was too rich; Omar should have held the line to a smaller number. After all, he was only bidding against himself. He should have called the bluff. Did he really think Ollie was going to sit the year out? I can't help thinking Omar's negotiating, thinking, and communication skills are less than required for this position. I can't wait to see how he makes out with Theo regarding a trade for Wags. Should be interesting. I think the problem is not that Omar signed Ollie, but rather the terms he signed him to. Omar allowed Boras to muscle him into a bad contract. The $36 mil over 3 yrs was too rich; Omar should have held the line to a smaller number. After all, he was only bidding against himself. He should have called the bluff. Did he really think Ollie was going to sit the year out? I can’t help thinking Omar’s negotiating, thinking, and communication skills are less than required for this position. I can’t wait to see how he makes out with Theo regarding a trade for Wags. Should be interesting.

]]> By: Greg From Brooklyn http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26449 Greg From Brooklyn Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:40:23 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26449 In my opinion Oliver Perez is nothing more than a double A pitcher. He's hot garbage. The Mets can put all that bullshit spin on this idiot all they want, we know he's worthless as a pitcher. This guy is Victor Zambrano reincarnated...Oh Zambrano ain't dead. Miniya screwed up he low balled Lowe and underestimated the market for him, and I would take Lowe at 40 rather than this simple minded M.F. Oliver Perez at 27, 28 or what how ever old he is...and he probably lied about that. In my opinion Oliver Perez is nothing more than a double A pitcher.
He’s hot garbage.

The Mets can put all that bullshit spin on this idiot all they want, we know he’s worthless as a pitcher.

This guy is Victor Zambrano reincarnated…Oh Zambrano ain’t dead.

Miniya screwed up he low balled Lowe and underestimated the market for him, and I would take Lowe at 40 rather than this simple minded M.F. Oliver Perez at 27, 28 or what how ever old he is…and he probably lied about that.

]]> By: Ace http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26441 Ace Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:20 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26441 Jessep, so you think Ollie was a good decision? He was not the only one available. In addition, of course he was worth a "multi-year deal", who else wanted him? Is it a fact that as soon as he signed his big contract his attitude changed? How was his performance in spring training? These are all rhetorical questions BTW. As you said many people have stated signing Perez to such a big money deal made little sense. I agree with your assesment of where he "should" be ideal to start in the rotation, that is when all of the planets align and he comes to play. However, does that spot in the rotation deserve that sort of bank? I know that MLB contracts, (or any other sport for that matter) are lucrative. I simply feel those dollars could have been spent on better options, even if they were for building up the farm system, which has been exposed to be very weak as a part of this injury ridden year. Do you honestly feel Omar has done an excellent job as GM? The argument could certainly be made he has not done a very good job at all, and it would be a reasonable argument. it is a topic that is gaining strength, and momentum. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4417186 Jessep, so you think Ollie was a good decision? He was not the only one available. In addition, of course he was worth a “multi-year deal”, who else wanted him? Is it a fact that as soon as he signed his big contract his attitude changed? How was his performance in spring training? These are all rhetorical questions BTW. As you said many people have stated signing Perez to such a big money deal made little sense. I agree with your assesment of where he “should” be ideal to start in the rotation, that is when all of the planets align and he comes to play. However, does that spot in the rotation deserve that sort of bank? I know that MLB contracts, (or any other sport for that matter) are lucrative. I simply feel those dollars could have been spent on better options, even if they were for building up the farm system, which has been exposed to be very weak as a part of this injury ridden year. Do you honestly feel Omar has done an excellent job as GM? The argument could certainly be made he has not done a very good job at all, and it would be a reasonable argument. it is a topic that is gaining strength, and momentum. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4417186

]]> By: Jessep http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26435 Jessep Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:29:19 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26435 Any pitcher who has to RELY on his defense to make him good is not a #2 pitcher, and not a pitcher worth 15 million dollars. That's ridiculous. Any pitcher who has to RELY on his defense to make him good is not a #2 pitcher, and not a pitcher worth 15 million dollars. That’s ridiculous.

]]> By: Strawman http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26434 Strawman Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:25:13 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26434 Nobody will take him off our hands. Either cut him, transform him into a lefty specialist, or concede the division to the Phillies in 2010 and 2011. Nobody will take him off our hands. Either cut him, transform him into a lefty specialist, or concede the division to the Phillies in 2010 and 2011.

]]> By: Des http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/08/jump-off-the-lowe-train-please.html#comment-26416 Des Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:30:13 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=11362#comment-26416 Pitchers who have high strikeout ratios usually are taken out of the game with high pitch counts. This puts a burden on the bullpen. Give me a good ground ball pitcher and some good infielders. Pitchers who have high strikeout ratios usually are taken out of the game with high pitch counts. This puts a burden on the bullpen.

Give me a good ground ball pitcher and some good infielders.

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