According to Jon Heyman of SI.com and MLB Network, Omar Minaya told the Blue Jays no when they called and offered the Mets Roy Halladay in exchange for prospects Fernando Martinez, Ruben Tejada, Jon Niese and Bobby Parnell.
Wow…
The Bart Hubbuch of the NY Post spoke to Omar Minaya:
Minaya also did not deny an SI.com report today that the Mets turned down a proposal from the Blue Jays for Cy Young winner Roy Halladay.
“That rumor’s out there right now, but I’m not going to comment about rumors,” Minaya said of the Halladay report.
It sounds like the Mets are definitely not buyers. In a brand new park that is built for pitching, you would think that the Mets would view Halladay as priority number one.
Omar Minaya and Jerry Manuel have repeatedly said that the only way the Mets could win games is with solid pitching and not by thumping the ball. And yet when the opportunity to produce a 1-2 punch of Johan Santana and Roy Halladay knocked on the door, they passed up on it.
To make things worse, Jerry Manuel said before tonight’s game that he didn’t expect any outside help before the July 31st trade deadline, and later on Omar Minaya repeated those words to reporters. Minaya also said that he would not make a trade for rental players, but Halladay would still be signed through 2010 and the Mets would have 1 1/2 seasons to negotiate an extension.
Imagine the burden on Jon Niese to perform when he finally gets called up. He will be remembered as the pitcher the Mets could have traded to get Halladay. Expectations will be unrealistically high.
I have no problem moving F-Mart, this is a win now team and Beltran is getting a little long in the tooth. F-Mart will not realistically help this team until 2012. We can’t wait that long, and there are still many who don’t believe he will ever be the player the Mets seem to think he’ll be.
As for Bobby Parnell, some of the best relievers in baseball make less than $3 million dollars a season, I’ll be damned if Bobby Parnell becomes a deal breaker if I’m running this team.
Ruben Tejada is 19 years old and is a plus defender, but he’s also blocked at shortstop by Jose Reyes. Oh, I have a great idea… why don’t the Mets bring him up three years too early, move him from his natural position and make him the everyday leftfielder next season.
Niese projects as a middle of the rotation starter, but is not there yet. The Mets gave him a shot last season, but he was over-matched. The Mets then gave him a chance to win a job in the spring, but he was beat out by Tim Redding and Livan Hernandez. He started out his season 0-7 at Buffalo, but since then has rebounded nicely and is on a nice roll.
But we are talking about adding arguably the best pitcher in baseball to a team that already has Johan Santana and nothing else.
We don’t have the type of offense that can clobber opponents like the Phillies. Our road to victory is with solid pitching and solid defense.
Joe D’s Roadmap To Victory
Halladay and Santana would be able to start 30 of the remaining 70 games this season. It’s not unreasonable to see the Mets win 25 of those 30 games.
That leaves just 40 games. Lets say we win half of those games. That gives us a 45-25 record for the rest of the season and puts us at 89 wins.
If we were to take an extra 5 of those 40 games, we would have 94 wins and either win the division or at the very least a wild card. If the Mets get Delgado and Beltran back for the stretch run, we can still win this thing. I wouldn’t say that if I didn’t truly believe it in my heart.
The choice is simple…
If you want to win, then pay the price for Halladay and don’t look back.
Otherwise don’t bore me with your feeble excuses, I don’t really want to hear them.
I agree let’s wrap it up…..we need to make our own destiny, go get it done Minaya…..I would though try to reserve Parnell because we need relievers but anyway, lets just get it done and the numbers you’ve posted sounds about right, if Holiday comes over…..I see 91 – 95, depending on the ballpin handles
I still believe as I posted last nite that this deal is a hoax just put out there to stir interest or jack up the price. No way, no how do Mets get Doc unless you include maybe Pelfrey at least.
I know that he would look good alongside Johan but remember, PLEASE, that while great in theory, the Mets are lacking in other areas. I still believe that unless Mets can find a young vet, Rios maybe, to play LF then you will have a rotation of not ready for prime time players out there.
Also, IMO, Jerry needs to let Murphy play 1st until Carlos returns to find out if he can our 1st baseman of the future. He has shown alot fielding wise and his errors have been on agressive plays like last night but he will learn as he plays more.
Anyway, until I see Halliday at a news conference with a Mets uniform I will doubt all rumors.
BTW, for those that want to sign him to an extension, if we get him, what guarantee do we have with all the innings he has thrown that he will not be another Pedro, good for one year then a steady decline in performance. Just thinking out loud that the contract that he would demand is big piece to take out of budget when you are paying Johan all that money. Just thinking out loud fellow Metsies.
CAPSLOCK, ETC
SARGE, PEDRO? U MUST BE JOKING, #1 PEDRO WAS 2 YRS OLDER & DAMAGED GOODS WITH TORN LABRUM NEVER SURGICALLY REPAIRED WHEN WE SIGNED HIM. HALLADAY IS 32. I’M PRAYING RICCARDI’S STATEMENT OF TRADE UNLIKELY IS THE MOST ACCURATE CIOMMENT CIRCULATING AROUND, AFTER THIS NON-DEAL WAS PUBLISHED THE INSUFFICIENCY OF IT HAS BEEN SO WELL DOCUMENTED AS TO MAKE IT SO DEAD AS BEYOND RESUSCITATION!
The Keith Law twitter is not really him. Thats the source of the sources. Keith Law does not mention it as bogus on ESPN.com and in fact they have at least two blogs devoted to the Mets/Blue Jay rumor.
Also, both Ricciardi and Omar did not deny the rumor. Both of them were asked specifically about it and neither denied they simply denied to comment on it.
Early this morning in the rumor section ESPN did state under the Halladay rumor that indeed Law did confirm that the deal was bogus. They have since changed that and dont even mention the deal in the rumor section anymore. Another thing I find interesting is that reliable sources, or guys I deem reliable others may disagree, such as Gammons and Buster Olney havent mentioned anything on thier blogs about the rumor. They ususally comment on these items. Interesting piece though on Olneys Blog- Titled “A Cheap Halladay Alternative”-Here are the statistical lines for two starting pitchers, compiled over a season:
Pitcher A: 132 innings, 124 hits, 2.73 ERA, 17 walks, 113 strikeouts
Pitcher B: 141 innings, 107 hits, 2.54 ERA, 34 walks, 95 strikeouts
Pitcher A is Roy Halladay, and these are his numbers for 2009, which will be much discussed over the next 10 days by the Phillies and many other teams.
Pitcher B is Justin Duchscherer. Those are his numbers from 2008. He has not pitched in 2009 after undergoing an elbow cleanup, but he is set to begin his minor league rehabilitation assignment and could be ready to pitch in the big leagues within a couple of weeks. The right-hander will be eligible for free agency this fall, and with Oakland in the process of trading off usable parts Duchscherer could be an intriguing alternative for teams that are looking for pitching help.
He has been often hurt in his career, but when Duchscherer is active and pitching, he usually fares pretty well, whether as a starter or a reliever. The 31-year-old has had four seasons of 55.2 or more innings, and his ERA has never been higher than 3.27 in those seasons. Twice he has made All-Star teams: once as a reliever, and once as a starting pitcher, most recently in 2008.
Buster was just on Sportscenter and stated nothing about the Mets when talking about Halladay. He’s stating that the Phillies are still the front runner and that scouts from both teams are in the respective ballparks gathering scouting reports. I guess its all about who you believe. I just want some damn confirmation on the report. It only seems Heyman and MLB network ran with the story. Stay tuned I guess
I saw that Buster Onley clip too. I don’t know if you’re in the NYC area, but WFAN is saying that the rumor is legit and has legs, and they are trying to get Heyman on to talk about it as well as other Mets news today.
David Lennon of Newsday also states in a chat that he believes there was “miscommunication” in Heymans report and that the deal would not be enough for the Jays
Just read Joel Shermans blog on NYPOST.com and he states “As for the Mets, the Toronto official said there is “absolutely nothing” going on with them. The official also said there “is no truth to that” about a report saying the Mets had rejected a request of Fernando Martinez, Bobby Parnell, Jonathon Niese and Ruben Tejada. The official said the Blue Jays are still scouting organizations and have “not given names we want to anybody” yet.”
Sherman is a straight shooter. I think we have an answer that we can rely on now.
I agree. Its seems the Mets beat writers, or the ones I have read so far, are siding with the rumor being false
I’m leaving this comment knowing that at the time Joe posted this, it was in reaction to the news that has since been debunked.
Joe, I totally agree that had the Blue Jay offer been a real offer, the Mets should have taken it.
The Mets have a bad habit of hanging on too tight to their prospects for big name players, and yet easily dumping them for marginal players.
None of those players are our top prospects. They are barely prospects at all.
The Mets top prospects are Wilmare Flores, Brad Holt, Jenrry Mejia, Josh Thole. None of them were included in this deal. Those guys are just lower tiered prospects and we are talking about the best pitcher in baseball here.
I know the deal has been debunked. But this is till a good debate to have.
Fat Francesa states on his show that he called the mets this morning and that they told him that the proposed trade was never offered to the mets and that they would be foolish to reject it if it was offered. SO thats another source rebuffing Heyman reports. He will try to get heyman on the show to hear his side and defend his report
Well t’s good to know that the Mets said they would have done the deal. Reading half the comments in this thread about not trading lower tiered prospects makes me wonder if most Mets fans know anything about who are our best prospects and who aren’t. I was shocked to see so many rferring to these b-listers as the future of the team. If Niese and F-Mart are the future of the team, the Mets are in worse shape than we think.
Francesa said the Mets denied that Toronto made that offer. The Mets never commented on the quality of that offer or whether they would have accepted it. The Mets reply was that they do not comment on offers or on the quality of their players reputed to be in it. It was Francesa who said they should have accepted such a deal if it was made, but it was never made and the offer did not exist. Francesa said any further discussion of it was moot since it did not exist.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
STACHE, WHILE I BELIEVE U MAYBE SELLING F-MART & JON-BOY TOO SHORT, TOO SOON, I STILL BELIEVE BOTH WILL CONTRIBUTE AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL, THOUGH POSSIBLY ELSEWHERE, NO ONE SHOULD EVER QUIT ON A LEFTY WHO THROWS IN THE 90s WITH A LORD CHARLES BEHIND IT. I BELIEVE F-MART WAS LIKELY CUTTING DOWN ON SWINGS FOR CONTACT AT SOMEONES ADVICE VEFORE HE BOARDED THE PLANE, DO U NOT REMEMBER THE FIRST YR OF THE CITI REPLICA FIELD IN ST? HE NAILED ONE ESTIMATED TO BE HALFWAY UP THE BATTERS’ EYE. WE DIDN’T SEE ANY OF THAT. THE POPUP FIASCO WAS A NOTHING, IN MY MIND OTHER THAN PPURE UNADULTERATED SHOCK AT FAILURE, I GIVE THE KID THAT ONE. THE MILWALKEE FLYBALL FIASCO WAS PISSPOOR FIELD CONDITION AS THE FIELD HAD BEEN SUBMERGED JUST DAYS BEFORE & OBVIOUSLY THE TURF WASN’T SET. WHO KNOW IF PITCHER EVEN PITCHED TO DEFENSIVE ALIGNMENT? THAT WOULD CAUSE HIM TO HOTFOOT IT OVER FROM RT CF TO LF CG A SLIGHT OVERRUN CORRECTED & RUG LIRTALLY PULLED OUT FROM UNDER HIS FEET. I’M NOT SUPRISED JERRY’S LINEUPS HAVE COST US 3 CFers THIS YR(BELTRAN,PAGAN,F-MART) LOUSY CORNER DEFENSE REQUIRES LINE X LINE COVERAGE BY CFer. TOO BIG AN AREA TO COVER ESP @ CITI.
I believe Francesa. I don’t care about payroll or if the trade even helps for 2009, the Mets would not pass on that trade opportunity. It was too good to be true.
As much as I hate to say it I believe him too. I hate the guy and the only reason I listened was to see his take on the rumor. But he is addiment that the mets told him the trade proposal was never offered. I think the clincher so far for me was Joel Sherman’s blog stating the jays organization stated they never made the offer. But hey if the offer wasnt made why not make it now.I mean the offer seems meager for someone of Halladays stature. I mean the deal deosnt have the top prospects one would think would be in the deal. But lets say the Jays cant find any suitors maybe they will make this deal if there arent any other suitable offers and they really want to shed Halladay to make payroll room. Doubt this would happen but hey you never know
Hopefully, this has started enough interest that there is further follow-up discussion and they actually get a real deal done.
MASK, I’M GOING YO USE THIS SPOT TO REOPEN OUR DISAGREEMENT RE. OMAR’S FUTURE WITH NYM TO THAT AIM I’M COPYING A RESPONSE I SENT TO A FRIEND BELIEVING AS YOU THAT OMAR SHOULD GO:
WILPON’S JUST ANNOUNCED JERRY & OMAR AS SAFE. WHAT WOULD YOU FIRE OMAR FOR?
GOOD FAR OUT WEIGHS BAD & QUESTIONABLE. ALL ANY GM CAN DO IS PROVIDE PLAYERS TO SUCCEED. SINCE HE WAS HIRED ON OCT 1, 2004 HIS TEAMS HAVE FINISHED:
2005 – 83-79 TIED FOR THIRD
2006 – 97-65 FIRST
2007 – 88-74 SECOND
2008 – 89-73 SECOND
2009 – ?
THE COMPILED RECORD OF OMAR’S YEARS IS 399-338.
COMPARED TO 2000-2004 RECORD OF 388-420.
OMAR’S TEAMS PROVIDED >.500 RECORDS IN EVERY YEAR AFTER THE TEAM SUFFERED FROM
<.500 RECORDS IN EACH OF THE PRIOR 5 YRS.
YOU'D FIRE HIM FOR?
CASTILLO? PEREZ? I'D ARGUE THAT WITHOUT CASTILLO THERE IS NO SANTANA & ASIDE FROM LAST YR HIS ON FIELD CONTRIBUTIONS HAVE EARNED 6M PER.
G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS GO/AO
SEASON 81 269 48 78 91 9 2 0 20 44 3 19 11 4 .290 .386 .338 .724 2.31
IF REYES WERE HEALTHY, I DOUBT U FIND A BETTER #2 HITTER 44 BB ONLY 19Ks IN 269 ABs A .386 OBP NOT SHABBY FOR A #2 HITTER.
PEREZ? WHAT WAS THE REAL ALTERNATIVE? LOWE FOR 4 YRS @ AGE 37 & $60M+? RANDY WOLF? BEN SHEETS & HIS CRIPPLED ARM? HE GAMBLED ON PEREZ' CONTINUED IMPROVMENT FROM LATE '07 UNDER WARTHEN'S GUIDANCE & WAS DERAILED BY WBC INFLUENCE/INJURY.
IF YOU RECALL RICK PETERSON WAS THE SOLE DECIDING FACTOR FOR ALL PITCHING ASSETS WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. MOST BLAME OMAR FOR DEALING AWAY BELL,LINDSTRUM, OWENS,BANNISTER; BUT PETERSON WAS "JEFF WILPON'S ANNOINTED PITCJING CZAR(GM) RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE'S PITCHING PROGRAM INCL APPROVAL OVER ALL LEVEL'S PITCHING COACHES & PETERSON DID NOT REPORT TO WILLIE OR OMAR; BUT DIRECTLY TO JEFF. EXCL DEALS INVOLVING PITCHERS, ALL OF OMAR'S DEALS, IN MY OPINION INVOLVING POSITION PLAYERS WERE POSITIVES.
CAMERON FOR NADY
MIKE JACOBS+ YUSMEIRO PETIT+GRANT PSOMAS FOR CARLOS DELGADO+$7M
NADY FOR HERNANDEZ+PEREZ (EMERGENCY DEAL DUE TO LESS THAN 48hrs PRIOR
TO DEADLINE) WAS TAXI ACCIDENT
MILLEDGE FOR SCHNEIDER+CHURCH
CHURCH FOR FRANCOEUR+.3M
CONSIDERING THE TRACK RECORDS OF HIS PREDECESSORS:
GEORGE WEISS '62-66
BING DEVINE '67
JOHN MURPHY '68-'69
BOB SHEFFING ;70-74
JOE McDONALD '75-79
FRANK CASHEN '80-'90 & '98 (REPL PHILLIPS DUE TO LEAVE OF ABSENCE DUE
TO SEX SCANDAL)
GERRY HUNSICKER '91-'92
AL HARAZIN '93
JOE McILVANE '94-'97
STEVE PHILLIPS '97 & '98-'03
JIM DUQUETTE '04
OMAR MINAYA '05-PRESENT
OMAR'S RECORD RANKS SECOND TO CASHEN'S IN W-L.
HIS OUTSIDE FREE AGENT SIGNINGS ALTHOUGH EXPENSIVE CERTAINLY PROVIDED QUALITY:
PEDRO MARTINEZ, CARLOS BELTRAN, BILLY WAGNER, FRANCISCO RODRIGUEZ.
AGAIN, WHY WOULD U FIRE OMAR? WHO WOULD U PREFER?
MASK I PRESENT THE SAME IRRUFTABLE FACTS TO YOU, NOTICE I DON'T ASSUME ANY OF THE FINANCIAL RESTICTION ISSUES WE'VE COVERED ad nauseum.
you know the hard thing to believe is that it came from Hayman…..Now I don’t recall is his track record on things like this but damn It would be hard to imagine that he screwed up this bad with false or misleading information/communication….it’s just too big, so the only way to narrow it down is Hayman, having him explain his side of the story and source
anyway I’m listening to FAN as we speak waiting for this possible interview with Hay’
Well Heyman just got done talking with Fat Mike Francesa and he stands by his story. Surprisingly he seemed to think the mets were giving up too much in the trade. Ask any Met fan and they seem to think differently. Well I guess the validity of the story stands with whom u believe. We may never know the truth though…who knows maybe the deal gets tweaked and it still gets done. Ive posted waaaaay to many comments today..Im done…Lets go Mets!
I agree to many for all of us today….I just heard it as well But is it strange how he kept on saying that the Mets wouldn’t do it or how Holiday wouldn’t come because the team is no good and for that matter he would just stay…..Mike was right the team is bad due to the injuries but say come Sept or next year the team is back to normal and with Holiday on the team we will be a much better team….something smells fishy IMO
All very weird. This is like “he said – she said”. Which one is lieing? Where did Heyman come up with this stuff? Maybe Omar is denying because it is actually in the works and too early to talk about. We could only wish!
MASK, I’VE HAD A FEW DAYS TO THINK ABOUT THIS. MY FIRST CONCLUSION IS THAT THE JAYS’ STATEMENTS ARE ACCURATE AS IS HEYMAN’S VERACITY. IF THAT’S THE CASE, IT WAS A BOGUS DEAL CONJURED UP IN NY AS PASSED BY A SEEMINGLY IMPEACHABLE SOURCE TO HEYMAN MUSH LIKE THE WMD FIASCO. THE NEXT ISSUE IS BASED ON THE RESULTS BEING EVERY PUNDIT,SYCHOPHANT & INTERESTED PARTY DEEMING OMAR AS AN INCOMPETANT FOOL. THAT LETS OMAR OFF THE HOOK AS THE AUTHOR. THE AUTHOR HAS TO HAVE AN ANTI-OMAR BIAS ALONG WITH UNIMPEACHABLE CREDENTIALS FOR HEYMAN TO PUT HIS NECK OUT THERE. WHILE THE BUZZARD(BERNAZARD) QUALIFIES ON THE FIRST ISSUE OF ANTI-OMARISM. I CAN THINK OF ONLY ONE POTENTIAL SOURCE THAT FITS BOTH CRITERIA…JEFF WILPON. HE’S WANTED OMAR OUT SINCE ’07 COLLAPSE, HE BATTLED OMAR OVER WILLIE’S JOB, OMAR HAS THE UNQUESTIONABLE BACKING OF FRED. OMAR DOESN’T COW-TOW TO ‘LORD’ JEFF. JEFF ALREADY HAS HIS OWN HANDPICKED DUQUETTELIKE PUPPET IN BERNAZARD. GIVING JEFF TOTAL UNQUESTIONED AUTHORITY JUST SHORT OF THE STENBRENNER SIBLINGS. HE FITS TOO WELL. JEFF WILL PROTECT THE ‘BUZZARD’ DOWN THE LINE IN THIS LATEST FIASCO AS, I BELIEVE BERNAZARD IS JEFF’S LUCA BRAZZI.