According to Jon Heyman of SI.com and MLB Network, Omar Minaya told the Blue Jays no when they called and offered the Mets Roy Halladay in exchange for prospects Fernando Martinez, Ruben Tejada, Jon Niese and Bobby Parnell.
Wow…
The Bart Hubbuch of the NY Post spoke to Omar Minaya:
Minaya also did not deny an SI.com report today that the Mets turned down a proposal from the Blue Jays for Cy Young winner Roy Halladay.
“That rumor’s out there right now, but I’m not going to comment about rumors,” Minaya said of the Halladay report.
It sounds like the Mets are definitely not buyers. In a brand new park that is built for pitching, you would think that the Mets would view Halladay as priority number one.
Omar Minaya and Jerry Manuel have repeatedly said that the only way the Mets could win games is with solid pitching and not by thumping the ball. And yet when the opportunity to produce a 1-2 punch of Johan Santana and Roy Halladay knocked on the door, they passed up on it.
To make things worse, Jerry Manuel said before tonight’s game that he didn’t expect any outside help before the July 31st trade deadline, and later on Omar Minaya repeated those words to reporters. Minaya also said that he would not make a trade for rental players, but Halladay would still be signed through 2010 and the Mets would have 1 1/2 seasons to negotiate an extension.
Imagine the burden on Jon Niese to perform when he finally gets called up. He will be remembered as the pitcher the Mets could have traded to get Halladay. Expectations will be unrealistically high.
I have no problem moving F-Mart, this is a win now team and Beltran is getting a little long in the tooth. F-Mart will not realistically help this team until 2012. We can’t wait that long, and there are still many who don’t believe he will ever be the player the Mets seem to think he’ll be.
As for Bobby Parnell, some of the best relievers in baseball make less than $3 million dollars a season, I’ll be damned if Bobby Parnell becomes a deal breaker if I’m running this team.
Ruben Tejada is 19 years old and is a plus defender, but he’s also blocked at shortstop by Jose Reyes. Oh, I have a great idea… why don’t the Mets bring him up three years too early, move him from his natural position and make him the everyday leftfielder next season.
Niese projects as a middle of the rotation starter, but is not there yet. The Mets gave him a shot last season, but he was over-matched. The Mets then gave him a chance to win a job in the spring, but he was beat out by Tim Redding and Livan Hernandez. He started out his season 0-7 at Buffalo, but since then has rebounded nicely and is on a nice roll.
But we are talking about adding arguably the best pitcher in baseball to a team that already has Johan Santana and nothing else.
We don’t have the type of offense that can clobber opponents like the Phillies. Our road to victory is with solid pitching and solid defense.
Joe D’s Roadmap To Victory
Halladay and Santana would be able to start 30 of the remaining 70 games this season. It’s not unreasonable to see the Mets win 25 of those 30 games.
That leaves just 40 games. Lets say we win half of those games. That gives us a 45-25 record for the rest of the season and puts us at 89 wins.
If we were to take an extra 5 of those 40 games, we would have 94 wins and either win the division or at the very least a wild card. If the Mets get Delgado and Beltran back for the stretch run, we can still win this thing. I wouldn’t say that if I didn’t truly believe it in my heart.
The choice is simple…
If you want to win, then pay the price for Halladay and don’t look back.
Otherwise don’t bore me with your feeble excuses, I don’t really want to hear them.
*Mets Merized Online Needs Your Help*
Great piece Joe, I’m really outraged right now that Halladay is being dumped in the Mets lap and they gave him back to the Jays. F-Mart is not going to be this great player Omar believes him to be. Tejada like you said cannot play at short stop with Jose Reyes and they will probably rush him to be a new catcher and ruin his development next year. Niese rebounded nicely from where he started and really improved his trade value but of course the Mets don’t act on it. Parnell is a good player but Halladay is worth saying goodbye to him.
This organization his a joke, plain and simple from the training staff to the manager to the GM up to the Cupons. It’s no wonder these guys lost 700 million
Outstanding analysis by Joe and great comment. This is a must do. What is Omar thinking?
I just can’t believe that omar is being this way, he is not committed to winning for the mets fans,we should have won in 06, carlos beltran should have swung at that curve ball in stead of just watching it in the strike zone for a call third strike, the last too years giving up the last two weeks of the season, and now this, what’s up, wow I just feel like a new ball park and era and a mets team to contend with the phillies, but now it’s another laugh in the mets fans face. Omar gave big contracts for a ton of money and these players don’t run out ground balls or run the bases, field, hit or any thing, i can’t believe d.wright where is his head sure not in the game, This is the problem and no focus, pitching is terrible, Only santana thank god for him. So omar finally be a man and make the right moves and get players who want to win not like doug flynn, steve henderson, dan norman, or pat zachry. Larman
Wow..The Roadmap.
It actually makes sense. It’s a little idealist. But hell it could happen.
Wait, what am I saying? Omar’s the GM. We’re not getting Halladay. Darn.
Joe, I think you put a great spin on this though. Great post.
Dude, you are the best Mets blogger on the web! This is awesome the way you did the math, and made it look so easy. For all those Mets fans that say Hallady wouldn’t help this team, GO HIDE UNDER A ROCK!
Are you crazy??? We shouldnt give up four prospects for any one player in baseball including Pujols. All the prospects we are giving them are the best in baseball. They are the most wanted players in the game and we should guard them and nurture them. At least two of these player are future hall of famers. Seriously, you forgot to inject a little logic into your post.
Future hall of famers??? WOW, I don’t think any of them will make the hall. So you are saying Niese is going to have a Career like Glavine, Maddux, Randy Johnson, or Even Curt Schilling (Borderline HOFer). Martinez is going to be a Griffey, Beltran, Mays, Manny, Puckett? Tejada is going to be better than Reyes? Parnell is going to even come close to a HOF vote being a relief pitcher? Wow you are totally lost on this sport. By the time any of these players are even close to their prime (if they have one) then they can be replaced by Free Agency or younger better prospects (Wilmur Flores, Brad Holt, Jenrry Mejia).
WmK, Where have you gotten brain washed? These 4 are not proven. What list have you seen where they are the most desired. 2 HOF’ers? Are you kidding? Pujols for those 4? In a second! With your thinking, you’re destined to be the next GM of this franchise!
Sorry but even though the supposed parts of the trade from the Mets are not ready for prime time players then how many time are we going to trade prospects, ready or not, and then complain later that when someone gets hurt, sound familiar, there is no major league ready talent in AAA to bring up.
Halliday would be a nice addition to be alongside Johan but you to develop talent in minors also or you just wind bringing in other teams cast offs and part time players, like this years teams.
With this trade that would make 8 “prospects” that are gone including Johan trade that could be serviceable players next year or future so we don’t have to make a trade like this one.
Mets need to follow Red Sox model and build from within, while not bringing in, other than Beckett and Dice K, other teams players.
When Mets build up system to a point where you have x-tra talent to upgrade then you make a trade like this but Halliday is not going to turn this season around and you need young players in minors to add to major league roster next year and future.
After you make this trade, you can afford to trade Pelfrey for 2 or 3 prospects and replenish.
Why the hate on Pelfrey? He’s not a#2 pitcher but he’s certainly an asset in the rotation. If you look at the pitchers Pelf has faced this year, he’s overmatched… nobody should have ever assumed he could be the #2 guy. A guy like John Lackey would fit PERFECTLY into this rotation next year. If you put Lackey up against the pitchers Pelfrey faced, I’d bet anything you would be more confident in Pelfrey as a #3 starter
I’m not trying to be negative on Pelfrey. I actually like him and hope he works out his problems. However, I was making the point that we should make the deal (if there is one) for Halladay. The prospects can be replaced and one way to do that is to make a follow-up trade. I’d rather trade Ollie, but no one will take that contract. Pelf is one real candidate to trade because he actually has promise and is cheap.
I couldn’t believe it when I read it.
I have a hunch that the Wilpons may have been reluctant to add salary.
But think about it, we’d have Halladay under contract for next year. Santana-Halladay would clearly be the best lefty-right 1-2 since Johnson-Schilling. And we know how that turned out. Pelrey, Ollie, and Maine would be the 3-4-5, where they should be.
Omar could be maneuvering to lower the price, like what happened with Santana, but that idea is flawed because the Phillies are the leaders in this race, and the Jays don’t have to deal Halladay the way the Twins had to deal Santana. If we take Halladay, we could prevent the Phils from winning the WS again.
If we get Halladay, we have a situation he can win in, and money to give him an extension.
This feels like treason from a front office to fans looking for anything to get excited about.
Hard to say if we can get him.
Phillie, esp if division continues to play out the way it is right now, might not be willing to give up someone like Happ or Drabek cause having Halliday is nice but they need more than one pitcher this year and next cause they do not have the rotation to go far next year.
Maybe Omar can get them to leave Niese out of it, NOT.
I believe that Doc will not get traded and until I have better cofirmation I will take this with a grain of salt.
Gammon was saying tonight that Blue Jays have to be overwhelmed to trade Doc and what Mets have, unless you include Holt and Wilmer, will not get it done. You cannot continue to deplete farm system and not build it up, especially young pitchers that you can control for many years.
The report has been shot down by multiple sources.
Your multiple sources is Keith Law. MLB ran with it and Omar had a chance to deny the rumor and didnt. WFAN confirmed it.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200907205651205&c_id=nym
At this point I think trading for Halladay, although not essential, would be a great move(not for this year, but next….and maybe beyond). I don’t know a whole lot about Tejada, but I think F-Mart will be a servicable starting player at best, Parnell a real good bullpen guy and possible mid rotation starter…Niese being the wild card. Halladay would be great for the other pitchers mindsets as he’s proven up north, and then once the smoke from this years disaster passed, the Mets could focus on what they need offensively (corner outfielder, 1b, 2b)and still have time to negotiate w/ Halladay.
Oh, and William K, I do agree to a point, but the farm system is junk, this team is a lost cause only for this year, the Mets should be buyers not sellers. Rebuild from the top down (I know that sounds strange)
Yeah, because Heyman has been proven right sooo many times before!?!
The Mets are not making a big trade. We know that. SHrugs. This year is going to either be one of the greatest team comebacks of all time or a bust. Heyman’s editor should utilize his scary investigative talents much more effectively, get him off the “OMAR OFFERED HALLADAY FOR A LEFTOVER PIECE OF COLD TOAST; AND TURNS IT DOWN!” story and put him on the really big story in Major League Baseball so far this year. The case of the
72+ hour muscle cramp that Sheffield is currently experiencing! This has to be a record! Never in Major League baseball has a player sustained a constant muscle cramp for over 72 hours straight! WOW! Amazing!
Just amazing! Why isn’t Heyman writing about this!
I doubt this rumor is true…as the Daily news said in an article..The Blue Jays and Mets would be the laughing stocks of baseball…One for offering the trade and the other for rejecting it. Lets not get ahead of ourselves until either the Jays or Mets confirm that the proposal even took place. Then if its true we can be very very angry
Also lets not forget that Halladay has a no trade clause so who even knows if he would accept a deal to the Mets. Lets not forget he stated he wanted to go to a team that could win…with the Mets record the way it is who knows if he would want to come to the Mets
In about five years, all of those propsects the Mets hang onto will either be traded for a bag of donuts or out of baseball, and we’ll talk about how we almost had Roy Hallady for a bunch of scrubs.
The Mets will find out much too late that F-Mart is nothing but a Jay Payton who is injury prone. Who cares!
And as for Tejada and Parnell??? B grade prospects for Halladay??? Not even on Top 200??? Really???
Like the author of the post says, this is a trade of Niese for Halladay and Niese projects to be a #3 type starter if everything works out perfectly and it never does.
Anyone who would pass on Halladay for these prospects really needs to take their meds.
I’d really like to see the Mets win another world series in my lifetime.
You’re right on! This is an endurance test for sure. Can we live long enough? I’m not sure about making that bet.
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
MLB Network’s Harold Reynolds said the Mets rejected the trade because they have no money and that even when Wagner, Delgado, Schneider, Putz come off the books, they will not add any payroll.
MLB also said that even if two of those guys have the talent to make it, they won’t do it in NY because they are not top prospects that come out of the gate like Evan Longoria did. He said these are prospects that will struggkle and that they have to play for a few years at a lower level and hopefull they can realize the potential and help the team. But can they survive in an inpmatient NY market?
MY GUESS IS NO!!!!!!!
Did you make up that Harold Reynolds thing? We know the Mets don’t have enough money, but did they actually say that? We need new ownership badly. Who’s going to start the petition for sale of the team?
I WOULDN’T BELIEVE A WORD OUT OF REYNOLDS’ MOUTH. HE’D LIKELY PISSED SINCE HIS SNY FORAY WENT SOUTH & SNY WOULDN’T LET HIM WORK WITH JULIE ALEXANDRIA OT YU, OR ANY OTHER FEMALE STAFF. WHAT’S NEXT MAZZILLI GOING TO BLOG SOMETHING STUPID? INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS ARE FOR MAKING MONEY OUTSIDE OF TYOUR MAINSREAM BUSINESS & NOT TO DERIVE OPERATING FUNDS FROM. DIDN’T MLB INVESTIGATE THE MAIDOFF EFFECT ON NYM OPERATIONS GIVING A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH ON LACK OF EFFECT TO OPERATIONS. I STILL WOULD LOVE TO SEE A “TRUMP” TAKEOVER AS HEAD OF INVESTOR GROUP RATHER THAN HAVE FRED PASS TO THE VILLAGE IDIOT, JEFF. THEY’D NEVER ALLOW A MARK CUBAN TO PASS THE OWNERSHIP COMMITTEE. WE NEED A COMPETITIVE FANTYPE TO MAKE FRED AN OFFER HE CAN’T REFUSE.
Great post! Omar blew it! It’s on to the NY Giants for me now!
If these reports are true and the reason it was rejected is because they have no money it isnt Omars fault. Blame bernie and the wilpons. Im still skeptical about all these “rumors”. Im sure the Jays can get a much better deal from another team. But whos to say that the Wilpons told Omar to not make the deal because they cant afford a Halladay. And also no trade gets done without the Wilpons approval. But we arent in the front office and we will never know…but one thing we do know is “HALLADAY HAS A NO TRADE CLAUSE!!!!!” Whos to say he would accept a deal to the Mets!!Everyone thinks if the Wilpons and Omar accepted the proposal that its a done deal. Its not
1. We dont need another ace we cant score runs for. We already do that every 5th day(Santana).
2. Halladay wants that Sabathia money in 2010. The Mets will never do it.
3. It’s not worth giving up prospects for a 2 month rental in a season of turmoil where we cant score and every game is a toss up.
4. If we do trade prospects it should be for some offense.
STOP BITCHING! WE’RE NOT A THREAT IN THE NL EAST OR ALL OF BASEBALL AT THE MOMENT. WINNERS MAKE MOVES LIKE THIS, THATS NOT US AT ALL RIGHT NOW! Let some other team get their farm system milked for a pitcher in his 30’s demanding that much.
#1 Halladay would reject it. Why make ourselves look dumb like the White Sox did with the Peavy deal?
#2 The Mets are probably done in 2009. It’s sad but true for Mets fans. We can’t get healthy and the team on the field now just can’t keep up. So why get a 32 year old pitcher who is phenominal don’t get me wrong… but he’s 32. The Mets aren’t going to sit there and add 13 mil in payroll to finish 5 or 6 games out of the playoffs.
#3 And personally this is my favorite. Thank you JP and thank you Jon Heyman. This rejection was AMAZING for the Mets. Why? Let’s go back to all of the posts that said the Mets farm system isn’t good enough to get Halladay. Now false. You’ll believe every Jon Heyman report probably except this one because you don’t like this one. What this does is now increase the value of Martinez, Niese, Parnell and Tejada. Now the tag line in offers can be “they were good enough to get Halladay” when the Mets try to get younger/cheaper pieces but talented in their own right.
This deal also says 2 things to me. Either A) Toronto doesn’t want to trade him to Philly or B) The Phillies are just not involved because they are comfortable with their NL East lead and team chemistry.
Great post. I also think many of the fans who would accept this trade would complain later down the line about the farm system being depleted. I would make this trade but I doubt Halladay accepts and doing this trade just makes the farm system even weaker and I really think the mets need to start building up the farm and getting more home grown players through the sysytem. Its a tough tough call. Thank god I dont have to make it
What are you basing all these assumptions on. Who reported that Halladay will not play for the Mets? How do you know what the Mets are willing to add or not add?
The fact the Jays wanted 4 lower tiered prospects compared to just two Philly prospects proves our farm is more inferior. Quality not quantity.
According to ESPN’s Keith Law the SI report from Heyman is Bogus. So again lets not get carried away with this yet fans
Keith Law doesnt have a clue.
And what makes you so sure Heyman has a clue? SNY Met Blog and ESPN stated that Law has said muliple sources confirmed this was bogus. We wont know the truth until Ricardi or Minaya confirm or deny the rumor. But since you are so sure Keith Law doesnt have a clue, how do you know the rumor is true? Do you have sources in the mets heirarchy because I sure dont. Guess we have to wait and see from the parties involved then if its confirmed. Until then this is all speculation and we are all getting ourselves worked up into a frenzy for nothing
If this trade failed, it was because of money and the Coupons not wanting to pay for an extension. In which case, Omar was right to reject it. But then that isn’t Omar’s fault, that goes on the Wilpons who BLEW 700-Mil on a scam and then refused to not only state the real numbers but have to balls to tell us that losing that kind of money would have no effect on the operation when in fact plenty of documents show it has (there were plenty of Mets accounts involved with Madoff).
This is a trade you do. Obviously you need to package Niese since the Jays want a pitcher back in return and you will NOT get Niese’s value up anymore right now. F-Mart isn’t even playing and won’t be for at least another year. This is a trade you should do, but it seems like it came down to money which the Wilpons don’t have because of Madoff.
So do not blame Omar on this. Omar is right not to take a guy for 2-months and a full season. If the Wilpons are getting real cheap and drawing a line, there’s no way Omar can do anything but make trades like we saw with Atlanta.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
INITIALLY, I KNEEJERKED A REACTION AGAINST SUCH A DEAL, NOW; HOWEVER WITH THIS TEAM, “THE FUTURE IS NOW.
UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, I’D CERTAINLY RECONSIDER. I WOULD FIRST HAVE TO ASSURE MYSELF HALLADAY WOULD WAIVE HIS NO-TRADE AND ASCERTAIN WHAT HE’D BE LOOKING FOR FINANCIALLY ONCE HIS CURRENT DEAL EXPIRES OR IF HE’D BE AMENABLE TO AN EXTENSION PRIOR TO FREE AGENCY. IF THE ANSWER TO ALL THESE IS AFFIRMATIVE & AFFORDABLE, I SWALLOW HARD & DO IT! THERE’S STILL MEJIA,HOLT, DAVIS,HAVENS,FLORES ON FARM & NO ONE I’M GIVING OUT OF (F-MART,NIESE,PARNELL,TAJADA) PROJECTS AS A SEASON CHANGER EQUAL TO HALLADAY. DOES IT TURN THIS YR AROUUND? NOT UNTIL MIAs RETURN; BUT 2010 IS LOOKING FINE. THE 2010 NYM PAYROLL COMMITMENT PER ‘COTS’ IS $92.113M WITHOUT HALLADAY & THERE’S NOTHING THAT ENSURES IT’S EFFECTIVLY SPENT MORE THAN A 2010 ROTATION OF SANTANA, HALLADAY, PEREZ, PELFREY, MAINE. WITH MORE FIRST ROUNDERS COMING OUR WAY WHEN WE LOSE WAGNER & PUTZ(TWO 8M CLUB OPTIONS I EXPECT UNUSED) I CONSIDER THAT AS FARM REPLENEISHMENT & DO THE DEAL FOR THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE. AT THE POSSIBLE COST OF THE DISTANT FUTURE.
AS MOST OF U REALIZE, I’VE HARPED ON THE WILPON “HARD” CAP ON PAYROLL BEING BELOW THE LUXURY TAX LINE, THIS YR THAT LINE IS $162M, NEXT YR IT’S $170M. IF OMAR SNAGS HALLADAY, KEEPS THE CORE OF BELTRAN,WRIGHT,REYES HE CAN CERTAINLY UPGRADE THE SUPPORTING CAST AROUND FRENCHY & LUIS WITHOUT SHOPPING OFF THE TOP SHELF FOR A 1B,C,LF. U WANT TO CHANGE TEAM PERSONALITY? U DO IT THROUGH THE SUPPORTING CAST. LOOK AT THE PHILLY & ATLANTA MODELS: WHO’S TEAMS’ RELY MORE ON THEIR BIT PLAYERS OF VICTORINO, WERTH, PRADO, ESCOBAR, IBANEZ THOSE ARE THE GUYS THAT SEEM RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE GAMEWINNERS THAN UTLEY,J-ROLL,HOWARD,JONES,McCANN.
BTW, HALLADAY ID REPRESENTED BY GREG LANDRY, NOT DARTH VADER(SCOTT BORE ASS)
Joe D for GM..
Great article!! I agree 100%. I just hope that the offer is not true and if it is Omar should be fired on the spot!! I’m sick of prospects. Especially Mets prospects who they seem to over rate time and time again. Trade the house for Halladay if given the chance….
I agree with mets prospects getting overrated. The A**hole Tony Benerzard, who always seems to be in the middle of a organization problem, is in charge of the Minor Leauge system. Maybe since a lot of “prospects” arent panning out and the system is thin its time to get rid of this a-hole and get someone in there who can get the farm system back to where it should be
Joe…you must be nuts! There are two chances of getting Roy Halladay, slim and none. This season will at best produce a .500 record and there will be hopefully huge changes. Despite having Santana, we have no reliable starting pitchers. We rolled the dice with signing Ollie and came up snake eyes. Mike Pelfrey has the ammunition but not the emotional make up to be a constant winner. John Maine has physical problems but despite his talents he too is a bit of a head case. it is time for the organization to admit that they will not be able to compete with the Phillies until they realize that we just don’t have the horses. Carlos Delgado would be a gamble to resign despite his comeback as a good hitter. Getting Jeff Francouer was good as he has talents yet developed. If we can’t win with Carlos Beltran maybe we should explore what could be brought back via trade. A couple of young prospects who can hit or a young stud pitching prospect. We have extra bullpen guys who could be of value to pennant chasing teams. they too could bring back young players to restock the roster….All the fans want is to see some sensible action for the organization to take. Finally, let us not forget that the owners were fleeced for hundreds of millions of dollars and may not have the resources right now to buy a pennant run!
I agree let’s wrap it up…..we need to make our own destiny, go get it done Minaya…..I would though try to reserve Parnell because we need relievers but anyway, lets just get it done and the numbers you’ve posted sounds about right, if Holiday comes over…..I see 91 – 95, depending on the ballpin handles
I still believe as I posted last nite that this deal is a hoax just put out there to stir interest or jack up the price. No way, no how do Mets get Doc unless you include maybe Pelfrey at least.
I know that he would look good alongside Johan but remember, PLEASE, that while great in theory, the Mets are lacking in other areas. I still believe that unless Mets can find a young vet, Rios maybe, to play LF then you will have a rotation of not ready for prime time players out there.
Also, IMO, Jerry needs to let Murphy play 1st until Carlos returns to find out if he can our 1st baseman of the future. He has shown alot fielding wise and his errors have been on agressive plays like last night but he will learn as he plays more.
Anyway, until I see Halliday at a news conference with a Mets uniform I will doubt all rumors.
BTW, for those that want to sign him to an extension, if we get him, what guarantee do we have with all the innings he has thrown that he will not be another Pedro, good for one year then a steady decline in performance. Just thinking out loud that the contract that he would demand is big piece to take out of budget when you are paying Johan all that money. Just thinking out loud fellow Metsies.
CAPSLOCK, ETC
SARGE, PEDRO? U MUST BE JOKING, #1 PEDRO WAS 2 YRS OLDER & DAMAGED GOODS WITH TORN LABRUM NEVER SURGICALLY REPAIRED WHEN WE SIGNED HIM. HALLADAY IS 32. I’M PRAYING RICCARDI’S STATEMENT OF TRADE UNLIKELY IS THE MOST ACCURATE CIOMMENT CIRCULATING AROUND, AFTER THIS NON-DEAL WAS PUBLISHED THE INSUFFICIENCY OF IT HAS BEEN SO WELL DOCUMENTED AS TO MAKE IT SO DEAD AS BEYOND RESUSCITATION!
The Keith Law twitter is not really him. Thats the source of the sources. Keith Law does not mention it as bogus on ESPN.com and in fact they have at least two blogs devoted to the Mets/Blue Jay rumor.
Also, both Ricciardi and Omar did not deny the rumor. Both of them were asked specifically about it and neither denied they simply denied to comment on it.
Early this morning in the rumor section ESPN did state under the Halladay rumor that indeed Law did confirm that the deal was bogus. They have since changed that and dont even mention the deal in the rumor section anymore. Another thing I find interesting is that reliable sources, or guys I deem reliable others may disagree, such as Gammons and Buster Olney havent mentioned anything on thier blogs about the rumor. They ususally comment on these items. Interesting piece though on Olneys Blog- Titled “A Cheap Halladay Alternative”-Here are the statistical lines for two starting pitchers, compiled over a season:
Pitcher A: 132 innings, 124 hits, 2.73 ERA, 17 walks, 113 strikeouts
Pitcher B: 141 innings, 107 hits, 2.54 ERA, 34 walks, 95 strikeouts
Pitcher A is Roy Halladay, and these are his numbers for 2009, which will be much discussed over the next 10 days by the Phillies and many other teams.
Pitcher B is Justin Duchscherer. Those are his numbers from 2008. He has not pitched in 2009 after undergoing an elbow cleanup, but he is set to begin his minor league rehabilitation assignment and could be ready to pitch in the big leagues within a couple of weeks. The right-hander will be eligible for free agency this fall, and with Oakland in the process of trading off usable parts Duchscherer could be an intriguing alternative for teams that are looking for pitching help.
He has been often hurt in his career, but when Duchscherer is active and pitching, he usually fares pretty well, whether as a starter or a reliever. The 31-year-old has had four seasons of 55.2 or more innings, and his ERA has never been higher than 3.27 in those seasons. Twice he has made All-Star teams: once as a reliever, and once as a starting pitcher, most recently in 2008.
Buster was just on Sportscenter and stated nothing about the Mets when talking about Halladay. He’s stating that the Phillies are still the front runner and that scouts from both teams are in the respective ballparks gathering scouting reports. I guess its all about who you believe. I just want some damn confirmation on the report. It only seems Heyman and MLB network ran with the story. Stay tuned I guess
I saw that Buster Onley clip too. I don’t know if you’re in the NYC area, but WFAN is saying that the rumor is legit and has legs, and they are trying to get Heyman on to talk about it as well as other Mets news today.
David Lennon of Newsday also states in a chat that he believes there was “miscommunication” in Heymans report and that the deal would not be enough for the Jays
Just read Joel Shermans blog on NYPOST.com and he states “As for the Mets, the Toronto official said there is “absolutely nothing” going on with them. The official also said there “is no truth to that” about a report saying the Mets had rejected a request of Fernando Martinez, Bobby Parnell, Jonathon Niese and Ruben Tejada. The official said the Blue Jays are still scouting organizations and have “not given names we want to anybody” yet.”
Sherman is a straight shooter. I think we have an answer that we can rely on now.
I agree. Its seems the Mets beat writers, or the ones I have read so far, are siding with the rumor being false
I’m leaving this comment knowing that at the time Joe posted this, it was in reaction to the news that has since been debunked.
Joe, I totally agree that had the Blue Jay offer been a real offer, the Mets should have taken it.
The Mets have a bad habit of hanging on too tight to their prospects for big name players, and yet easily dumping them for marginal players.
None of those players are our top prospects. They are barely prospects at all.
The Mets top prospects are Wilmare Flores, Brad Holt, Jenrry Mejia, Josh Thole. None of them were included in this deal. Those guys are just lower tiered prospects and we are talking about the best pitcher in baseball here.
I know the deal has been debunked. But this is till a good debate to have.
Fat Francesa states on his show that he called the mets this morning and that they told him that the proposed trade was never offered to the mets and that they would be foolish to reject it if it was offered. SO thats another source rebuffing Heyman reports. He will try to get heyman on the show to hear his side and defend his report
Well t’s good to know that the Mets said they would have done the deal. Reading half the comments in this thread about not trading lower tiered prospects makes me wonder if most Mets fans know anything about who are our best prospects and who aren’t. I was shocked to see so many rferring to these b-listers as the future of the team. If Niese and F-Mart are the future of the team, the Mets are in worse shape than we think.
Francesa said the Mets denied that Toronto made that offer. The Mets never commented on the quality of that offer or whether they would have accepted it. The Mets reply was that they do not comment on offers or on the quality of their players reputed to be in it. It was Francesa who said they should have accepted such a deal if it was made, but it was never made and the offer did not exist. Francesa said any further discussion of it was moot since it did not exist.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
STACHE, WHILE I BELIEVE U MAYBE SELLING F-MART & JON-BOY TOO SHORT, TOO SOON, I STILL BELIEVE BOTH WILL CONTRIBUTE AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL, THOUGH POSSIBLY ELSEWHERE, NO ONE SHOULD EVER QUIT ON A LEFTY WHO THROWS IN THE 90s WITH A LORD CHARLES BEHIND IT. I BELIEVE F-MART WAS LIKELY CUTTING DOWN ON SWINGS FOR CONTACT AT SOMEONES ADVICE VEFORE HE BOARDED THE PLANE, DO U NOT REMEMBER THE FIRST YR OF THE CITI REPLICA FIELD IN ST? HE NAILED ONE ESTIMATED TO BE HALFWAY UP THE BATTERS’ EYE. WE DIDN’T SEE ANY OF THAT. THE POPUP FIASCO WAS A NOTHING, IN MY MIND OTHER THAN PPURE UNADULTERATED SHOCK AT FAILURE, I GIVE THE KID THAT ONE. THE MILWALKEE FLYBALL FIASCO WAS PISSPOOR FIELD CONDITION AS THE FIELD HAD BEEN SUBMERGED JUST DAYS BEFORE & OBVIOUSLY THE TURF WASN’T SET. WHO KNOW IF PITCHER EVEN PITCHED TO DEFENSIVE ALIGNMENT? THAT WOULD CAUSE HIM TO HOTFOOT IT OVER FROM RT CF TO LF CG A SLIGHT OVERRUN CORRECTED & RUG LIRTALLY PULLED OUT FROM UNDER HIS FEET. I’M NOT SUPRISED JERRY’S LINEUPS HAVE COST US 3 CFers THIS YR(BELTRAN,PAGAN,F-MART) LOUSY CORNER DEFENSE REQUIRES LINE X LINE COVERAGE BY CFer. TOO BIG AN AREA TO COVER ESP @ CITI.
I believe Francesa. I don’t care about payroll or if the trade even helps for 2009, the Mets would not pass on that trade opportunity. It was too good to be true.
As much as I hate to say it I believe him too. I hate the guy and the only reason I listened was to see his take on the rumor. But he is addiment that the mets told him the trade proposal was never offered. I think the clincher so far for me was Joel Sherman’s blog stating the jays organization stated they never made the offer. But hey if the offer wasnt made why not make it now.I mean the offer seems meager for someone of Halladays stature. I mean the deal deosnt have the top prospects one would think would be in the deal. But lets say the Jays cant find any suitors maybe they will make this deal if there arent any other suitable offers and they really want to shed Halladay to make payroll room. Doubt this would happen but hey you never know
Hopefully, this has started enough interest that there is further follow-up discussion and they actually get a real deal done.
MASK, I’M GOING YO USE THIS SPOT TO REOPEN OUR DISAGREEMENT RE. OMAR’S FUTURE WITH NYM TO THAT AIM I’M COPYING A RESPONSE I SENT TO A FRIEND BELIEVING AS YOU THAT OMAR SHOULD GO:
WILPON’S JUST ANNOUNCED JERRY & OMAR AS SAFE. WHAT WOULD YOU FIRE OMAR FOR?
GOOD FAR OUT WEIGHS BAD & QUESTIONABLE. ALL ANY GM CAN DO IS PROVIDE PLAYERS TO SUCCEED. SINCE HE WAS HIRED ON OCT 1, 2004 HIS TEAMS HAVE FINISHED:
2005 – 83-79 TIED FOR THIRD
2006 – 97-65 FIRST
2007 – 88-74 SECOND
2008 – 89-73 SECOND
2009 – ?
THE COMPILED RECORD OF OMAR’S YEARS IS 399-338.
COMPARED TO 2000-2004 RECORD OF 388-420.
OMAR’S TEAMS PROVIDED >.500 RECORDS IN EVERY YEAR AFTER THE TEAM SUFFERED FROM
<.500 RECORDS IN EACH OF THE PRIOR 5 YRS.
YOU'D FIRE HIM FOR?
CASTILLO? PEREZ? I'D ARGUE THAT WITHOUT CASTILLO THERE IS NO SANTANA & ASIDE FROM LAST YR HIS ON FIELD CONTRIBUTIONS HAVE EARNED 6M PER.
G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS GO/AO
SEASON 81 269 48 78 91 9 2 0 20 44 3 19 11 4 .290 .386 .338 .724 2.31
IF REYES WERE HEALTHY, I DOUBT U FIND A BETTER #2 HITTER 44 BB ONLY 19Ks IN 269 ABs A .386 OBP NOT SHABBY FOR A #2 HITTER.
PEREZ? WHAT WAS THE REAL ALTERNATIVE? LOWE FOR 4 YRS @ AGE 37 & $60M+? RANDY WOLF? BEN SHEETS & HIS CRIPPLED ARM? HE GAMBLED ON PEREZ' CONTINUED IMPROVMENT FROM LATE '07 UNDER WARTHEN'S GUIDANCE & WAS DERAILED BY WBC INFLUENCE/INJURY.
IF YOU RECALL RICK PETERSON WAS THE SOLE DECIDING FACTOR FOR ALL PITCHING ASSETS WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. MOST BLAME OMAR FOR DEALING AWAY BELL,LINDSTRUM, OWENS,BANNISTER; BUT PETERSON WAS "JEFF WILPON'S ANNOINTED PITCJING CZAR(GM) RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE'S PITCHING PROGRAM INCL APPROVAL OVER ALL LEVEL'S PITCHING COACHES & PETERSON DID NOT REPORT TO WILLIE OR OMAR; BUT DIRECTLY TO JEFF. EXCL DEALS INVOLVING PITCHERS, ALL OF OMAR'S DEALS, IN MY OPINION INVOLVING POSITION PLAYERS WERE POSITIVES.
CAMERON FOR NADY
MIKE JACOBS+ YUSMEIRO PETIT+GRANT PSOMAS FOR CARLOS DELGADO+$7M
NADY FOR HERNANDEZ+PEREZ (EMERGENCY DEAL DUE TO LESS THAN 48hrs PRIOR
TO DEADLINE) WAS TAXI ACCIDENT
MILLEDGE FOR SCHNEIDER+CHURCH
CHURCH FOR FRANCOEUR+.3M
CONSIDERING THE TRACK RECORDS OF HIS PREDECESSORS:
GEORGE WEISS '62-66
BING DEVINE '67
JOHN MURPHY '68-'69
BOB SHEFFING ;70-74
JOE McDONALD '75-79
FRANK CASHEN '80-'90 & '98 (REPL PHILLIPS DUE TO LEAVE OF ABSENCE DUE
TO SEX SCANDAL)
GERRY HUNSICKER '91-'92
AL HARAZIN '93
JOE McILVANE '94-'97
STEVE PHILLIPS '97 & '98-'03
JIM DUQUETTE '04
OMAR MINAYA '05-PRESENT
OMAR'S RECORD RANKS SECOND TO CASHEN'S IN W-L.
HIS OUTSIDE FREE AGENT SIGNINGS ALTHOUGH EXPENSIVE CERTAINLY PROVIDED QUALITY:
PEDRO MARTINEZ, CARLOS BELTRAN, BILLY WAGNER, FRANCISCO RODRIGUEZ.
AGAIN, WHY WOULD U FIRE OMAR? WHO WOULD U PREFER?
MASK I PRESENT THE SAME IRRUFTABLE FACTS TO YOU, NOTICE I DON'T ASSUME ANY OF THE FINANCIAL RESTICTION ISSUES WE'VE COVERED ad nauseum.
you know the hard thing to believe is that it came from Hayman…..Now I don’t recall is his track record on things like this but damn It would be hard to imagine that he screwed up this bad with false or misleading information/communication….it’s just too big, so the only way to narrow it down is Hayman, having him explain his side of the story and source
anyway I’m listening to FAN as we speak waiting for this possible interview with Hay’
Well Heyman just got done talking with Fat Mike Francesa and he stands by his story. Surprisingly he seemed to think the mets were giving up too much in the trade. Ask any Met fan and they seem to think differently. Well I guess the validity of the story stands with whom u believe. We may never know the truth though…who knows maybe the deal gets tweaked and it still gets done. Ive posted waaaaay to many comments today..Im done…Lets go Mets!
I agree to many for all of us today….I just heard it as well But is it strange how he kept on saying that the Mets wouldn’t do it or how Holiday wouldn’t come because the team is no good and for that matter he would just stay…..Mike was right the team is bad due to the injuries but say come Sept or next year the team is back to normal and with Holiday on the team we will be a much better team….something smells fishy IMO
All very weird. This is like “he said – she said”. Which one is lieing? Where did Heyman come up with this stuff? Maybe Omar is denying because it is actually in the works and too early to talk about. We could only wish!
MASK, I’VE HAD A FEW DAYS TO THINK ABOUT THIS. MY FIRST CONCLUSION IS THAT THE JAYS’ STATEMENTS ARE ACCURATE AS IS HEYMAN’S VERACITY. IF THAT’S THE CASE, IT WAS A BOGUS DEAL CONJURED UP IN NY AS PASSED BY A SEEMINGLY IMPEACHABLE SOURCE TO HEYMAN MUSH LIKE THE WMD FIASCO. THE NEXT ISSUE IS BASED ON THE RESULTS BEING EVERY PUNDIT,SYCHOPHANT & INTERESTED PARTY DEEMING OMAR AS AN INCOMPETANT FOOL. THAT LETS OMAR OFF THE HOOK AS THE AUTHOR. THE AUTHOR HAS TO HAVE AN ANTI-OMAR BIAS ALONG WITH UNIMPEACHABLE CREDENTIALS FOR HEYMAN TO PUT HIS NECK OUT THERE. WHILE THE BUZZARD(BERNAZARD) QUALIFIES ON THE FIRST ISSUE OF ANTI-OMARISM. I CAN THINK OF ONLY ONE POTENTIAL SOURCE THAT FITS BOTH CRITERIA…JEFF WILPON. HE’S WANTED OMAR OUT SINCE ‘07 COLLAPSE, HE BATTLED OMAR OVER WILLIE’S JOB, OMAR HAS THE UNQUESTIONABLE BACKING OF FRED. OMAR DOESN’T COW-TOW TO ‘LORD’ JEFF. JEFF ALREADY HAS HIS OWN HANDPICKED DUQUETTELIKE PUPPET IN BERNAZARD. GIVING JEFF TOTAL UNQUESTIONED AUTHORITY JUST SHORT OF THE STENBRENNER SIBLINGS. HE FITS TOO WELL. JEFF WILL PROTECT THE ‘BUZZARD’ DOWN THE LINE IN THIS LATEST FIASCO AS, I BELIEVE BERNAZARD IS JEFF’S LUCA BRAZZI.