It’s Time To Show Omar The Door

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• Barry July 18, 2009 at 10:13 am

  I am ready for this team to start dumping anyone that can bring back some young players for the future. I am very frustrated by the lack of talent displayed in our system. Other teams have recently drafted players waiting to contribute and we have nothing close. Our drafts have been weak and there isn’t one impact player. Milledge is gone and stinks, Humber is gone and stinks, Pelfrey is still a question mark and not even in the same class as Hamels. Why are we so inferior to teams that we rival in money or in the division? That is what bothers me more than the losing seasons, is the fact that I don’t see a bright side to the future. The system sucks and I have to blame Omar and his crew for not putting together young Major League talent at AAA and AA levels.
  • METS62FAN July 19, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    BARRY THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTIONS ARE, IN MY OPINION, ANSWERED WITH TWO NAMES, RICK PETERSON & TONY BERNAZARD. RICK PETERSON WAS SOLELY REPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE FRANCHISE’S PITCHING RELATED ASSETS INCL THE TRADING AWAY OF THOSE WHO REFUSED TO BE “PETERSONIZED” (KAZMIR,BELL,OWENS,LINDSTRUM,BANNISTER).
    BERNAZARD DELIBERATLY PLACES METS’ PROSPECTS INTO LEVELS HIGHER THAN THEIR ABILITIES/TRAINING TO PROVIDE DELIBERATE STRUGGLES RESULTING IN THE DOWN EVALUATION OF THEIR HIGHER TALENTS F-MART IS TYPICAL IN AS MUCH AS WITHOUT ANY FULL SEASONS IN AA OR AAA HE WAS DEEMED ‘READY’ FOR THE BIGS.

    WHILE I BELIEVE JOE IS EXCELLENTLY PORTRAYING CHERRYPICKED TROUBLES HE FALLS SHORT IN PORTRAYING THE ACTUAL CIRCUMSTANCES THAT EXIST.

    WHAT ISN’T SAID ABOUT OMAR’S ASSUMPTION OF THE GM POSITION IS THIS: HE TOOK OVER A THIRD/FOURTH PLACE TEAM WITH A WEAK ROSTER AND DEPLETED PIPELINE WITH ONLY ONE POSITIONAL PROSPECT(MILLEDGE). WITH NO TOPNOTCH TALENT IN THE MINORS, AND LITTLE MARKETABLE TALENT IN THE MAJORS, THAT LEFT FREE AGENCY WITH WHICH TO BUILD A CONTENDING TEAM WHICH EXCL ’05 AS HIS INITIAL SEASON THE TEAM HAS FINISHED NO WORSE THAN SECOND PLACE IN ANY SEASON LIMITING THEIR ASSIGNED DRAFT PICKS TO LATE IN ROUNDS. FIRST ROUND PICKS WERE RELINQUISHED AS COMPENSATION FOR SIGNING PEDRO,BELTRAN,WAGNER,K-ROD. MOST OTHER TEAMS IN THAT POSITION NAMELY YANKEES & BOSTON, REPLENISH SOME OF THOSE LOST PICKS BY NOT RESIGNING THEIR OWN TOP FREE AGENTS. THE METS’ FRANCHISE HAD ONE SUCH FREE AGENT DEPART, GLAVINE, RESULTING IN A REPLACEMENT PICK. THE OTHER STRATEGY IS FOR TEAMS TO LOOK FOR FIRST ROUNDERS WHO, DUE TO HIGH SIGNING DEMANDS, ARE NOT CHOSEN IN THE FIRST ROUND. THOSE TEAMS, BOSOX & NYY, THEN PONY UP THOSE DEMANDS EVEN THOUGH THE SIGNEE IS CHOSEN IN A SUBSEQUENT ROUND. OMAR HAS BEEN DENIED THAT ABILITY BY OWNERSHIP JUST AS HE’S DENIED THE ABILITY TO INCUR LUXURY TAX PENALTIES.

    WITH ALL THE RESTRICTIONS PLACED ON ANY MET GM BY OWNERSHIP, I BELIEVE OMAR, THOUGH NOT MISTAKELESS HAS DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB WITHIN RESTRICTIVE BORDERS RARELY MENTIONED BY PRESS.

    NONE OF US KNOW IF SANTANA WOULD’VE STILL WAIVED HIS NOTRADE IF HIS CALL TO HIS FRIEND, LUIS CASTILLO, WAS ANSWERED WITH A NEGATIVE IMPRESSION OF THE NY TEAM. CASTILLO HAD ALREADY TURNED DOWN MORE MONEY FROM METS TO STAY WITH FL(NECESSITATING MATSUI SIGNING). IF OMAR WERE TO GUARANTEE A FAVORABLE CASTILLO REPORT TO SANTANA AN OVERPAYMENT WOULD BE NEEDED. CASTILLO’S SUBSEQUENT INJURY/LACKLUSTER ’08 SEASON EXCASBERATED THE SITUATION. I MENTIONED OMAR MISTAKES, I BELIEVE OMAR’S COWTOWING TO NY FAN NEEDS FOR “BIGGER” NAMES HAS CAUSED HIM TO IGNORE LOWER RANKED, AVAILABLE FREE AGENT PIECES NOT REQ DRAFT PICK COMPENSATION, WHEN ADDING AROUND HIS ‘STARS’. WITH A LUXURY TAX LINE SET AT $162M THIS YR, OMAR SPENT $149M, LEAVING 13M AVAILABLE, NOT SUPRISINGLY THAT’S THE AMOUNT REQ TO ADD EITHER A HALLADAY OR A HOLIDAY. WHILE SOME, LIKE BILL MADDEN, CRIOTICIZE CHOOSING KUNZ IN FIRST ROUND, OTHERS MAY POINT TO HAVING AN AGING CLOSER(WAGNER) UNDER CONTRACT & FORSEEING THE NEED FOR A SUPPOSED “CAN’T MISS CLOSER PROSPECT” WHEN LOOOKING IN ANY MIRROR IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THE “THINGS CLOSER” WARNING PRINTED ON IT. SOMETIMES IT’S NOT AS IT SEEMS TO BE RECOLLECTED. WITH OVER 90M COMMITTED IN PAYROLL FOR NEXT YEAR AND SUBSTANTIVE ASSSETS IN REYES, WRIGHT, BELTRAN, SANTANA, K-ROD ALREADY LOCKED ON THE BOOKS AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR A HUGE MORTGAGE PAYMENT CONSIDERING A 5 YR REBUILDING PROGRAM WOULD LIKELY BANKRUPT THE FRANCHISE INTO CONTRACTION CONSIDERATION.

    BABIES & BATH WATER. AIM YOUR WRATH AT THE CORRECT TARGET, JOE…JEFF WILPON.
    LOOK AT ALL THE ISSUES IN PAST SINCE 2000, THEY ALL TRACK ONE PLACE. 1) VET PLAYER INFLUENCE ISSUE 2) WILLIE FIRING SCANDAL 3)CLUBHOUSE DISRUPTION BY BERNAZARD, 4) PITCHING PROSPECT DISMANTLING(PETERSON), 5)SNY ANTI-MET PROGRAMMING
    GUESS WHO? THE VILLAGE IDIOT, LIL JEFF. THE SECOND BORN SON
    • andy July 19, 2009 at 4:18 pm

      I will definitely have to take your side on this one. Omar has done a pretty damn good job on this team and it has gotten them some respect. they were a horrible team before he took over and within 2 yrs had them in the playoffs.

      Its not necessarily his fault the teams not doing great this year but i think he could maybe grab another guy in a trade like adam dunn to play first till delgado comes back and he can go into left field. he strikes out a lot but hes got some power and a power lefty is what we need now.
      • METS62FAN July 20, 2009 at 8:37 am

        ANDY, I UNDERSTAND UR THOUGHTS ON DUNN; BUT U HAVE TO CONSIDER 2 THINGS, 1) IS DUNN WORTH:
        Adam Dunn of
        2 years/$20M (2009-10)

        2 years/$20M (2009-10)
        signed by Washington as a free agent 2/11/09
        09:$8M, 10:$12M

        2) WHAT ARE U WILLING TO GIVE UP? DO U DEAL (F-MART+)?

        SOMETIMES WHEN U THINK A SOLUTION IS A NO-BRAINER, YOU FIRST MUST ASSUME OMAR ISN’T A COMPLETE IDIOT & SEES ALL THAT FANS SEE SO IF HE DOESN’T PURSUE IT QUITE LIKELY OMAR SEES SOMETHING WE DON’T. TEAMS KNOW OF THE METS’ DESPERATE SITUATION THEY LOSE NOTHING BY DEMANDING REDICULOUS RETURNS. FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE STATED COST FOR DUNN IS F-MART,NIESE,FLORES & HAVENS THE ANSWER HAS TO BE “ABSOLUTELY NOT!” REMEMBER NATS AREN’T DESPERATE; THE METS ARE. NATS MAY MAKE THOSE DEMANDS HOPING TO NEGOTUIATE THE DEAL DOWN TO 2 OR 3 OF THOSE PROSPECTS.

        I STILL AGREE WITH YOUR THINKING SINCE I BELIEVE DUNN IS A BETTER OPTION THAN EITHER DUNN OR HOLIDAY SINCE WE KNOW DUNN WILL HIT HR IN CITI; BUT WE’RE GUESSING ON THE OTHERS. WE DON’T NEED ANY MORE WRIGHT TYPE CONVERSIONS FROM POWER TO HIGH AVERAGE. I’M STILL NOT TOTALLY SOLD THAT WRIGHT’S SWING CONVERSION WAS SOLELY DICTATED BY CITI & WAS NOT ALSO DRIVEN BY THIS COMPETITION FOR CHARITY AGAINST JETER BASED ON THE HIGHER BA. WE KNOW DAVID’S A CONSUMATE COMPETITOR IS HE BEYOND GOING ALL OUT FOR HIS CHARITY TO GET THE BIGGER CONTRIBUTION? HE KNOWS HE CAN HIT HR IN CITI, KNOWING THIS HE’S STILL MADE THE SWITCH.
      • METS62FAN July 20, 2009 at 9:48 am

        ANDY, HAVE U SEEN DUNN IN LF? SOMETIMES I THINK I’D PREFER MURPH THERE, AT LEAST MURPH’S YOUNG WITH A CHANCE TO IMPROVE. COMPARED TO DUNN, MANNY IS THE PERENIAL GOLDGLOVER IN LF. 8M FOR ’09, 10M FOR ’10 THEN WHAT? MY OPINION, BELTRAN’S OUT DUE TO LOUSY CORNERS NEEDING COVERAGE, BELTRAN HAS TO PLAY DEEP CF SINCE HE HAS TO BE READY TO GO LINE 2 LINE. WE’D STILL HAVE BELTRAN IN MY OPINION IF THE REG CORNERS HAD BEEN CHURCH & REED. HOW DO U PUT SURGICALLY REPAIRED KNEES IN THAT POSITION FOR 150+ GAMES? OMAR SUPPLIED THE PIECES OF MURPHY,REED,PAGAN,BELTRAN,CHURCH,TATIS,EVANS JERRY PLACES THE PIECES. THOSE CHOICES ARE CERTAINLY A STRONG ENOUGH BATCH TO COBBLE A WINNING COMBINATION OUT OF.
        ALL OF THE USUAL BROMIDES REGARDING INJURIES IN BASEBALL SHOULD BE IGNORED. THIS YEAR WE’VE BEEN FORCED TO PLAY THE EQUIVILENT OF A SCAB TEAM (REPLACEMENTS DURING STRIKE)AGAINST REG MLB ROSTERS. THE BROKEN TALENT PIPELINE BROKE UNDER PHILLIPS, NOT OMAR. OMAR ADDED F-MART,CARLOS GOMEZ, DELOISE GUERRA, PELFREY WITH HALF OF THEM SECURING SANTANA DEAL, THE OTHER HALF CONTRIBUTING TO ’09. WE’VE LOST 5 RESERVE PLAYERS TO THIS INJURY PLAGUE. DON’T FIRE THE GM, FIRE THE TRAINING STAFF WHOSE JOB IT IS TO RECOMMEND ACTUAL MEDICAL ASSESSMENT, IDETIFY INITIAL EXTENT OF INJURIES, PREPARE TRATMENT PLANS IN ACCORDANCE WITH DRS. RECOMMENDATIONS, ENSURE PROPER CONDITIONING OF HEALTHY PLAYERS TO AVOID INJURIES.
        UNDER THAT ASSESSMENT OF RESPONSIBILITIES, YOU COULD REPLACE OMAR,JERRY,WARTHEN,ALL WILPONS, THE ENTIRE MEDICAL STAFF AND CHANGE ABSOLUTLY NOTHING.
        • Jessep July 20, 2009 at 10:08 am

          I’d agree with you except reading your posts bother me because of your Caps lock
      • METS62FAN July 20, 2009 at 12:05 pm

        TO ME THE MOST INTERESTING OMISSION BY OMAR DETRACTORS IS WINNING RECORDS OF THE TEAMS HE’S COMPILED. HERE’S THE TO-DATE STATS INCL RECORD FOR ’09 (42-49)UP TO THIS TYPING. NO RAW NUMBERS TELL A STORY AS COMLETLY AS CONTEXTUAL NYMBERS. THE CLOSEST WE CAN LIKELY COME TO ‘CLEANED UP NON ENHANCED” RECENT RECORDS IS TO START WITH THE 10 YEARS BEGINNING WITH 2000. 5 WERE OMAR’S, 5 WEREN’T. OMAR’S RECORD OVER HIS 5 YRS IS 399-338, THE 5 NON OMAR YEARS, 388-420. ANYONE OF OMAR’S ROSTERS IS FAR SUPERIOR TO ANY IN THE PRIOR 5. ARE WE JUDGING ON RESULTS OR PERCEPTIONS? REMEMBER WS CHAMPIONSHIPS ARE OUR(FANS) GOALS, NOT NECESSARILY FRED’S. WHO’S GUARANTEED TO DO BETTER? WHO ELSE IS GOING TO STAND UP TO JEFF’S INTERFERENCES? FRED KNOWS HIS CHILDREN & PICKED THE ONE EXEC HE KNEW WOULD NOT FOLD TO JEFF.
    • Fbaseball July 22, 2009 at 9:50 am

      The Mets tried to blame Al Goldis for the Kazmier trade while all along it was Rick Peterson and Tony Bernazard, so what do they do they fire Al Goldis who has been one of the top Asst to the General Manager’s in baseball for years.
      Also , I have no idea where Omar got this training staff from, they have no clue, the team has had so many injuries to key players ever since Fred Hina left the Mets to become Rick Pitino’s trainer at Louisville, the good news is Fred Hina wants to come back to the Mets, OMAR DO US ALL A FAVOR AND HIRE HIM BACK.
• Griffin Gold July 18, 2009 at 10:16 am

  agree with you Joe, what is the point of a GM if he doesn’t do anything.
  • theonlymaskman July 18, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    Exactly. This guy is laughing all the way to the bank. He brings in a pretty penny and doesn’t do crap. What does Omar do except spin a yarn of woe? He’s worthless and we need a change badly, but the first change should start with his Bosses, the Coupons who are living in a dream world of their own.
• D.C. July 18, 2009 at 10:33 am

  I agree with you Joe 100%. This Mets mess is no excuse besides the injuries.
• Jessep July 18, 2009 at 10:37 am

  “Some may say, the Wilpons are at fault for the Mets deficiencies, or that the Bernie Madoff situation played into it as well, but that’s a load of bunk. Omar had $145 million dollars to spend as he wanted. It was more than any other GM had to play with. The Marlins made do with a $39 million payroll and have a team that shows more promise and is more exciting to watch.”

  Look, I don’t know all the answers but what did you want Omar to do this off-season? What moves would you have made to make this team better? Signed a 36 year old Lowe to a 4 year deal? I am getting a little tired of watching this team too… but I’m also tired of seeing people call for Omar’s head when they have no other better ideas.

  Who’s going to be the GM? Got a plan for that? If it’s an internal hire, isn’t that just as bad?

  Who was he supposed to get this off-season that would have saved his job?

  I just don’t understand WHAT we want. Take a look at our rival Phillies… in most spots I’d say we have better talent (when healthy) than their best players. Yet they win and we lose. Is that the GM’s fault or the on-field manager?

  Omar has an extension… why the Wilpon’s in the financial “crisis” they are in now would fire a GM with 3 years left to pay him is beyond me. Manuel and that entire staff have to go. That’s what has to happen. The problems are on the field, not off the field acquisitions.

  Sure, Ollie isn’t working out right now… but again WHAT should Omar have done? Was there a better option that was more financially sound? No.

  This team needs a brand new swagger and a brand new on the field management. You want change? Bring Bobby V or Wally Backman into Citi Field and you’ll see some change. You won’t see a lack of hustle or anything like that.

  When people say the Mets have the most talented roster in the NL (when healthy) that is a credit to Mr. Minaya is it not? Isn’t that his job? To acquire a talented roster. The on the field management’s job is to turn that talent into a winner.

  I think Omar and his staff totally dropped the ball on the farm system as of now… but nobody would be talking about that if

  A) Even the Mets Apple suffered an injury this year
  B) The team played like we all know they can play.
  • SuperGrover July 18, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Olando Hudson,Manny Rameriz,Raul Ibanez,Derrick Lowe,Abraeu….all were passed up on.

    If the Yankee’s were willg to throw in Huhges or Chamberlin Santanna would have been with them,anlong with Beltran who was turned doen by Boras in his plea to them before he took the only money on the table.

    Get your facts straight Omar apologist!
    • Colonel_Kurtz July 18, 2009 at 11:54 am

      And you know darn well the Wilpons were involved in a LOT of that. Manny? Omar wanted him, Wilpons said no. Given that the Wilpons blew all that money with Madoff, how can you tell me they didn’t tell Omar to get cheat? Seriously, the Wilpons are as deep in on this as Omar.

      And with owners like the Wilpons, I really don’t think any GM would had done a good job
    • Jessep July 18, 2009 at 4:41 pm

      Glover

      “Olando Hudson,Manny Rameriz,Raul Ibanez,Derrick Lowe,Abraeu….all were passed up on.”

      Hudson: Signed 1 year deal, what did you want to do with Castillo? Do you have an answer for what to do with his contract or just throw some harry potter magic and make it dissappear? It’s not like Castillo is replicating his 2008 season. If the roster is full you’d look at Castillo as having a good year, except he’s everybodys goat.

      Manny Ramirez: Really? I won’t even dignify that with a clever response. The guy was just suspended for 50 games because he cheated. You wanted that circus in NY? Get real.

      Ibanez: Remind me again he just turned how old? oh right. 37. 37 years old. We have Sheffield for 400k rather than Ibanez costing us millions. If you are going to sit here and tell me you knew Ibanez would have a career year, you’re a liar. Also. He’s 37. In our current state what would he have brought to the table?

      Lowe: Signed a 4 year deal at 36. That’s a contract that at minimum in 2 years you all would be here complaining about us having to reserve a spot in the rotation for him at age 38.

      Abreu: Guy couldn’t play defense in Yankee stadium, and was afraid of the wall. Brand new stadium, tricky Right Field… why bother getting him? And Again. HE’S OLD. Sense the trend for crying out loud. Do you blame the Mets for not signing players over the age of 35 to million dollar contracts?
  • Joe D July 18, 2009 at 11:58 am

    I was against the Lowe signing as was most Mets fans. But a good GM is not judged by non-moves, only what he actually did.

    Omar could have pursued Randy Wolf who has been key to the Dodgers success this season. He also backed out of the Jason Marquis for Aaron Heilman deal that the Cubs offered and kept on the table for three days.

    Instead he made the Putz deal knowing that Putz was pitching with a bone spur, a deal that looks pretty bad now.

    He could have pursued a legitimate leftfielder rather than proclaiming Murphy as the golden boy. Dunn and Abreu were both affordable and willing to sign for 2 years or less.

    He picked up the $14 million dollar option on Delgado who had a well documented hip condition. At the very least he could have picked up the option and traded him to the AL, just like the Yankees did when they picked up Sheffield’s option and traded him to the Tigers.

    The Angels have been beset with many devastating injuries and yet they are in first place. Injuries are a part of the game. The Yankees lost Posada, A-Rod and two of their five starters this season for long stretches.

    There are plenty of good GM’s with low market teams that would jump at the chance to mange a $140 million dollar payroll. GM’s that have won divisions with payrolls less than $100 million dollars.

    Omar Minaya may be a nice guy, but he destroyed the Nationals and set them back 5-6 years after he left them, and unfortunately he is steering the Mets in the same direction.
    • Jessep July 18, 2009 at 4:47 pm

      Wolf is a fair discussion but again… there’s nobody that could have predicted he’d have a career year at 32. It’s not like the Dodgers sign him thinking “he’s gonna have a 3.20 ERA this year…” they signed him as a back-end guy to fill in… and they lucked out. It happens.

      Why does the Putz deal look bad? Where’s Endy Chavez right now? Oh right. He’s injured too.

      “He picked up the $14 million dollar option on Delgado who had a well documented hip condition. At the very least he could have picked up the option and traded him to the AL, just like the Yankees did when they picked up Sheffield’s option and traded him to the Tigers.”

      – Do you have examples of AL teams that wanted Delgado? If YOU knew he had a hip condition, you don’t think AL Gm’s did? He had to pick up that option. What other choice did he have? The guy had an amazing year and they had no shot at Teixeira and they had every right to assume Delgado is a better option at 1B than Murphy.

      You can’t just make things up. We can’t sit here and say, “well we coulda traded castillo, or dealt delgado to the AL.” For what. Bring proof to the table. You can’t call for a GMs head because you coulda made a fantasy baseball trade work.

      You wanna talk about lack of developing the farm system… lets talk. But making up reasons to fire a guy because you think he coulda made trades is not fair.
      • Joe D July 18, 2009 at 5:58 pm

        You miss the point. In the AL they have a DH. Delgado would have put less of a strain on his hip by not playing the field.

        That’s why I cited the Yankees who picked up Sheffield’s option even though he lost time to the DL with bad knees. They traded him to the Tigers where he became an exclusive DH.

        Sheffield had just 6 homers and 25 ribbies in 2006, nowhere near as good as Delgado who had a solid season.

        The Yankees traded Sheff for 3 prospects.
• Jessep July 18, 2009 at 10:40 am

  And by the way, I think you give Omar way way too little credit in regards to the Johan trade. The Wilpon’s didn’t swoop in and get the Twins to agree to that deal… Omar did.

  How many GM’s right now can say they made a trade for arguably the best starting pitcher in baseball when the Yanks were in the bidding and left the Yanks REGRETTING that they never made the trade they had in front of them.

  That’s not the Wilpon’s throwing $ out there.
  • Joe D July 18, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Jessep, don’t paint Omar as a superman. They Yankees and Red Sox were never willing to give up four to five prospects for Santana. They were just trying to keep Santana from each other. The Mets were crazy enough to give up half of the top prospects in their system. The Mets collapse, and the Twins win the division. No other team was willing or crazy enough to do a five for one.

    Secondly, the reason Santana agreed to the trade was because he was promised a window to sign a huge extension that made him the highest paid pitcher in baseball.

    The Wilpons had everything to do with that.

    If there was no negotiating window, there was no deal.

    It all came together because of the negotiating window (which even had to be extended after the original expired) and because Omar gave up all his blue chip prospects when the other teams were not willing to give up more than two prospects.

    Omar wasn’t a genius, he was merely reckless, and guaranteed Santana he’d get the richest contract in baseball for a pitcher.
    • Jessep July 18, 2009 at 4:52 pm

      “The Mets were crazy enough to give up half of the top prospects in their system.”

      Yeah you’re right. Who the hell wants a 28 yr old (at the time) lefty ace who many believe is the best pitcher in baseball. Are you kidding me? We’re gonna knock Omar because he gave up prospects to get Johan Santana? IT’S JOHAN SANTANA! I bet you guys are the same people who wanted the Mets to go trade for Adam Dunn. Get outta here with that. You gotta trade prospects to get a stud like Santana. OUR prospects had less value than the Yanks or Red Sox prospects but somebody was gonna get Johan and we did… now we’re complaining because why? Did I miss the meeting that said Carlos Gomez was the future of the Mets franchise? You want Humber in your rotation right now instead? Last I checked he had a 5.00+ ERA in AAA…
      • Joe D July 18, 2009 at 5:49 pm

        I didnt knock Santana. I merely said Omar got Santana because he gave up what no other team was willing to do. You made him out to be a genius, all the other teams knew Santana was the best SP in baseball. They didnt have an owner willing to give him $150 million bucks and half their top prospects.

        It dont matter what the prospects are doing now, otherwise why not trade Wilmer Flores, F-Mart, Brad Holt, Jon Niese and Jenrry Mejia for Roy Hallady and then guarantee him a six year deal making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Gee what a genius Omar is.

        As for citing the stats of what we gave up two years after the fact, you missed the point.

        If you want to play Monday night quarterback look at Heath Bell, Brian Bannister, Matt Lindstrom, Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, Chris Young and then look at what Omar traded them for.
        • Chris H July 18, 2009 at 7:33 pm

          I agree with you, and your analogy using Halladay makes your point. I didnt realize it then, but I see now why the Twins traded him to us. The other teams in the mix were only willing to trade two prospects.
• Doug Branch July 18, 2009 at 10:47 am

  Joe: Baseball, and the Mets, are our summer entertainment and right now a trip to the dentist is more gratifying. It’s hard to watch the pitcher’s get shelled and the hitters so feeble night in and night out. The organization is in a shambles and Omar has banked on players who seem to be slow healers.

  Comes a time you have to suck it up and get out there. He has spent recklessly at times, and the bidding against himself (i.e. Perez and Castillo) was irresponsible.

  As a GM you have to invest in the right type of player. Moreover, they draft Steven Matz, a lefty with a bright future, and have not signed him yet (when draft picks are slotted into signing bonuses, so what’s the holdup?).

  They need all the young arms they can get. In fact, managment should aggresively look to stockpile as many hurlers as possible. Then build from there.

  Its a lost season, only it’s barely half over.
  • Des July 18, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Omar said that the Mets can never have too many pitchers. So he went out and got almost every never-was or never-will-be bum that was available for under $2 Million.

    What a ragtag staff!!!

    Did Omar really save money in the long run?

    This season a lot of fans went to CitiField because of the novelty effect. It should be interesting next season when there is no motivation outside of fans wanting a good team.
• Des July 18, 2009 at 10:58 am

  Joe,
  The best acquisition of the Mets is the one they didn’t make: BARRY ZITO.
  The egomaniacal but inept curveballer from the Left Coast may have saved the franchise in the long run by deprecating the Mets management which was willing to spend $75 -$90 Million or so.

  Thanks to you, Barry the Bust!!!
• dave crockett July 18, 2009 at 11:51 am

  Jessep Says:
  Look, I don’t know all the answers but what did you want Omar to do this off-season? What moves would you have made to make this team better? Signed a 36 year old Lowe to a 4 year deal?

  :: Many people at the time thought that was the move to make, even at 4 years. I’m torn. Had Omar signed him to 4/$36 and Lowe had the season he’s had for Atlanta, Omar’d be getting ripped for bidding against himself. At the same time though, it’s clear that Omar’s faith in Oliver Perez was the key reason he drove such a hard bargain with Lowe. Even if you begin with the premise that 4 yrs of Lowe would have been bad form — not a bad premise when you consider that the Braves are barely better than our sorry-ass team, and they threw big money at Lowe and Vasquez — you must also acknowledge that Omar bet a good chunk of the farm on Oliver Perez. He was never a player for Vasquez and drove a hard bargain for Lowe.

  Who’s going to be the GM? Got a plan for that? If it’s an internal hire, isn’t that just as bad?

  :: This to me is the critical question. Things can always be worse. It’s not unlike with the Knicks during the Thomas Era. You know he needed to be gone, but didn’t trust Dolan to make a better hire. Frankly, I think the NBA kinda stepped in and gave the Knicks some assistance in getting Donnie Walsh.

  What’s interesting to me is that the vultures really haven’t begun to circle over Omar just yet. I think the Wilpons aren’t in a position to hire another name GM and pay Omar. So I have my doubts about whether Omar’s job is in any real jeopardy.

  Who was he supposed to get this off-season that would have saved his job?

  :: Many people argued that Adam Dunn would have cost nothing but money and could have been a solution at LF initially as well as an insurance policy against a Delgado injury. Dunn certainly has his detractors, but again, Omar was ready to march into the season with Murphy and Church as his corner outfielders. I’m not the biggest Dunn fan in the world, but once again he was never seriously considered. To his credit though, Omar was in the hunt for Ibanez. He just got outbid by the Phils.

  I just don’t understand WHAT we want. Take a look at our rival Phillies… in most spots I’d say we have better talent (when healthy) than their best players. Yet they win and we lose. Is that the GM’s fault or the on-field manager?

  :: The Phillies are much better in the offense-heavy corners, and have been the past couple years. Perhaps my biggest critique of Omar is that he appears to have swung and missed on Opie and Daniel Murphy. That’s a big deal because Omar trusts his scout’s eye. Perez is a perennial tease and Daniel Murphy just doesn’t look like anything better than an average major leaguer. (And he’ll need to get a lot better just to be that. He’s Mike Jacobs without the power.) I didn’t expect him to hit .400, but I did expect a better batting eye.

  Omar has an extension… why the Wilpon’s in the financial “crisis” they are in now would fire a GM with 3 years left to pay him is beyond me. Manuel and that entire staff have to go. That’s what has to happen. The problems are on the field, not off the field acquisitions.

  :: I don’t know that it would be any cheaper in the short run to fire the entire staff rather than eat the GM’s extension. But the larger point seems to be right. It’s unclear whether the Wilpons can afford to pay Omar AND find another quality GM and coaching staff.

  Sure, Ollie isn’t working out right now… but again WHAT should Omar have done? Was there a better option that was more financially sound? No.

  :: Actually, Lowe — even at his asking price — was a better deal than what they paid Ollie. I was there with Omar when he passed on Lowe. The Braves looked desperate, but then when he turned around and backed up a truckload of money in front of Oliver Perez I was jaw-dropped. Perez is not likely, based on easily available data, to ever be the pitcher Lowe has been historically. In other words, NOT over paying for Lowe was more than offset by overpaying for Perez.

  This team needs a brand new swagger and a brand new on the field management. You want change? Bring Bobby V or Wally Backman into Citi Field and you’ll see some change. You won’t see a lack of hustle or anything like that.

  :: Swagger is my least favorite expression of all time. It is the classic confusion of cause for effect. “Swagger” comes with performance. This team isn’t under-performing. It is performing at about the level one would expect. The current starters simply aren’t very talented. Bobby V isn’t coming back and Wally Backman’s hopes of managing in the majors are done. We might see somebody like Oberkfell if management makes a move.

  :: For my money, the Frenchy trade was the subtle signal to the rest of the league (and to the team) that this season is over and that the Mets are sellers. I expect more trades of useful spare parts in the coming days (e.g., Feliciano, Schneider, Parnell).

  When people say the Mets have the most talented roster in the NL (when healthy) that is a credit to Mr. Minaya is it not? Isn’t that his job? To acquire a talented roster. The on the field management’s job is to turn that talent into a winner.

  :: That’s a valid point in Omar’s favor. I’d say that one unfair criticism is that anyone could acquire talent with that big budget. But the Dodgers have had a big budget for a long time, and they haven’t until recently. The best, and fairest, criticism of Omar I’ve heard came from Tim Marchman. To paraphrase, he basically said that Omar constructs a major league roster like an NBA GM. In the NBA, it’s all about the superstars. Can you get a superstar, at least two other star quality players, and role players that do something useful/don’t kill you. In baseball, the role players/2nd tier players are much more important. You can’t just build a star-centric roster. Omar is great at finding and bringing in the superstar. Yeah, you gotta have money, but lots of teams have money. The Braves are a big budget team. So are the Cubs, who are pretty much just as bad as we are without the injury problems. Omar is not very good at finding role players/2nd tier players that put you over the top. We can match and exceed the Phillies’ star players, but their 2nd tier players are much, much better.

  I think Omar and his staff totally dropped the ball on the farm system as of now… but nobody would be talking about that if

  A) Even the Mets Apple suffered an injury this year
  B) The team played like we all know they can play.

  :: Well, the farm system has been a long-standing criticism of Omar. To his credit the farm system has improved the past couple years. But, all of the star talent is at the low levels.

  A better farm system with more major league ready talent would have been useful in keeping this team afloat while waiting for the big guys to get back. But it hasn’t been helpful at all. Perhaps if/when they promote Niese he’ll be helpful, but we haven’t been able to dip into the minors and bring up anything that’s useful at all.
• Joe D July 18, 2009 at 12:08 pm

  The Mets fired Steve Phillips in the first year of his three year deal too.
• peterock29 July 18, 2009 at 12:19 pm

  OMAR NEEDS TO GO. and no this isnt someone who just cant think of anything else to do but blame omar does anyone remember the 2 past historic collapses we had in 07 and 08???and now this in 09???omar had to get it done this year that was it.plain and simple yes the injuries were unfortunate but its still not an excuse with a $145 million dollar payroll.we have no deoth no left fielder no first baseman no #2 starter no # 3 starter.no bench these are things omar had to adress for us in the offseason.yes the bullpen failed us last year but last year we still didnt have a left fielder.nor a reliable starting rotation behind johan.omar needs to go and we need to get a scrappy hard nosed gm in here please not tony bernazard whos the biggest back stabber behind jerry manuel.bernazard isnt off the hook with all this too since hes in that front office as well.keep the core maybe start to look at options for reyes and a package if we can get some solid starting players.omar has been a terrible GM his 5 seasons here and we have 1 yes 1 playoff appearance!!!!!! thats not going to cut it in the mecca of baseball central.OMAR HAS GOT TO GO!!!MAYBE JERRY TOO!!!

  SOMEWHERE IN JERSEY OR MILWAUKEE WILLIE RANDOLPH IS LAUGHING HAHA
• Jeff July 18, 2009 at 12:39 pm

  We shouldn’t even bother trying to revamp the season with new players. Even if we make trades, were still going to come up short because the Mets don’t get it done. I say keep who we got, let this year be a lesson and let everyone come back healthy next year.
• kevin July 18, 2009 at 12:52 pm

  Joe, you hit the nail on the head. Omar must go. He has been a big fail!
• Tommy2cat July 18, 2009 at 1:04 pm

  General Manager – Davey Johnson

  Manager – Bobby Valentine

  Now, go get some sleep.
• Tommy2cat July 18, 2009 at 1:27 pm

  Listen, Omar is a good guy and a competent baseball talent evaluator. His achilles heel may be his sense of loyalty to players that underperform. He certainly isn’t responsible for failing to anticipate injuries to Beltran and Reyes. Delgado and Putz were guarded risks, but are All Stars when healthy. Maine and Ollie also could’ve reasonably been expected to recover by now.

  Omar gets one final Mulligan due to the decimation of nearly one-third of his starting roster to injury. He should heed the lessons of the summer of 2004 and jettison the balance of the season for next year. Develop young players, release underperforming players or those who impede the developement of younger players.

  Without hesitation, I am showing the door to Tatis, Redding & Castillo. Delgado will not be resigned due solely to his unreliability.

  In the offseason, I would welcome Orlando Hudson with an apology, sign Matt Holliday or Jason Bay for LF, X-Nady for RF – 1b and Nick Johnson, and keep Daniel Murphy as an understudy to 1st and 3rd base.

  Next year’s line-up:

  Reyes – ss
  Hudson – 2b
  Holliday/Bay – lf
  Beltran – cf
  Wright – 3b
  Johnson – 1b
  Francouer/Nady* – rf
  Catcher**
  Pitcher***

  Bench: Pagan, Murphy, Catcher (Schneider/Santos/Thole), Cora, Nady*

  Rotation: Santana, Bedard, Pelfrey, Ollie/Neise, Nieve

  Bullpen: K-Rod, Stokes, Feliciano, Bradford, Parnell, Figueroa, Green

  Most of this is doable, with Delgado & Putz coming off the books. Depends upon the Front Office’s commitment to winning.
• Griffin Gold July 18, 2009 at 1:36 pm

  If you all remember the Mets were projected to go to the World Series or win it. Thanks to Minaya the Mets were given those expectations.

  Now that all of the backups have completely failed we are all playing the blame game. I think the Mets need new scouts in the minors and git rid of Manuel. He cannot keep the club hot for more than two days. But i do not advise firing anyone now. The season is practically over and we are not going to the playoffs. Lets just see how the rest of the season plays out.
• Tommy2cat July 18, 2009 at 1:38 pm

  Player Developement:

  Position Players: Nick Evans, F-Mart (obviously, don’t rush him), Wilmer Flores, Josh Thole, Shawn Bowman, Ike Davis & Reese Havens

  Pitchers: Brad Holt, Dillon Gee, Eric Beaulac, Eddie Kunz, Wilmer Flores, Roy Merritt, Adam Bostick, Toby Stoner & Pat Misch
• Mikey J July 18, 2009 at 2:27 pm

  i agree 100%. It’s time. And I don’t mind if it takes a few trades and a few years to build up the talent at the top 3 levels again. I have no idea who I’d replace Omar with, but he is out there!
• Comfortably Numb « July 18, 2009 at 2:42 pm

  [...] Met fans can’t stay awake and are already dreaming of 2010. Joe D at Metsmerized is ready to show Omar the door. A few people still have hope but realize time is not on our side [...]
• tainoray July 18, 2009 at 4:06 pm

  Lets Go Mets They should have gotten Manny and Dunn, jerry should be fired for starting ollie on thursday. Omar is taking the blame for the Wilpons losses to Madoff, He will be spared.
• Denise Winter July 18, 2009 at 8:38 pm

  Great job Joe. You have Omar pegged perfectly!
• Real Fake Sports July 18, 2009 at 9:13 pm

  It’s not his fault that they have had so many injuries. They have had a better line-up on the DL than on the field at times.
  • Matt74 July 19, 2009 at 12:23 am

    I agree, the injuries are there, but the farm is tapped, who is left, no one to bring up, and no trade bait. Whose fault is that? It’s not hard to zone in on the best available closer, or centerfielder, or starting pitcher…out of the homegrown talent that is MLB ready or starting, who is Omar credited with?
    As much as I hate to say it, we need a 2-3 year plan at this point. If we mortgage the farm, we won’t get much, and if we fire sale, we’ll be at the ame point…the Mets were healthy the last 2 years and still got folded up like lawn furniture. Now injuries everywhere, what’s a shame is,(if everyone was healthy), and Pittsburgh would take the price, I would trade Reyes all day for Jack Wilson and Freddie Sanchez. They give 150% on off days and 265% on game days. Perfect DP combo. Eat Castillo’s contract and make him a backup(oh well) for 2 great clubhouse guys, 1 a leader who will get the 2 run 2b when you need it, and the other will be pretty clutch and hit 300 every year and switch positions when needed (if Wright goes down).
  • Joe D July 19, 2009 at 10:28 am

    All team have injuries. We didnt have and depth and when you have the team with the largest payroll in the entire league, a little depth is not much to ask for.

    Look at the Angels who have lost Vladimir Guerrero, Torii Hunter, Kelvim Escobar, Scott Shields, John Lackey, Darren Oliver, Dustin Mosely, Ervin Santana…

    They are in first and will win the division.
• dogman July 19, 2009 at 12:04 pm

  i found the jesse p vs. joe D debate more spirited and informed than anything sny or any media outlet offers. each had something to say
  and said it with substance.

  winner: jessep.

  booting omar will not solve fan woes. the worst thing you can say about him is his ollie contract. fire the trainers and medical staff but chalk alot of this awful season up to plain bad luck…
  who does one blame for the hype on FMart? this kid is years away
  from anything resembling average–if that. i blame the clamor of fans/media for begging/demanding his promotion. in a desperate attempt to give the dog a bone – they send in another clown in waiting. the farm system is bankrupt and you want a 20 year old savior to resemble the rookie darryl? please.

  the real culprit? the length of the MLB season; an inhumane schedule, too little time to rest/recover -refresh + corporate greed = more injuries than ever before – league wide. depth is everything in baseball’s marathon. how do you build depth in this environment
  with too few legit players to go around? that’s more than a rhetorical
  question. have at it.

  angel pagan is
  • Joe D July 19, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    Dang it Bobby, one of these days I’m gonna win one of these old-fashioned Texas showdowns! (Sorry, ya gotta love Hamk Hill!)

    jessep was a worthy contender, and I enjoy having these healthy debates on this site. Thanks for the comment dogman and you too jessep.
• dogman July 19, 2009 at 12:06 pm

  angel pagan –keep showing your stuff. and stay healthy.
• Jessep July 19, 2009 at 4:31 pm

  I think there is a huge difference between me saying I don’t think Omar is the answer, and me being an Omar apologist. Frankly, he probably shouldn’t have gotten an extension WHEN he did. He should have had to prove this year that he was worth the contract… but that didn’t happen and there’s nothing we can do about it.

  Somebody above mentioned Oberkfell when I mentioned Bobby or Backman. I’d be all for Oberkfell being the skipper. All for it. When he came up as a coach after Randolph left, I personally felt as though guys like Reyes really responded to him. And don’t forget, Oberkfell has managed some of these guys in the minors.

  To me, it’s about on the field. When healthy, does anybody out there think we wouldn’t be within 1 or 2 games of the NL East lead if not leading? Of course not. So that means, Omar did his job.

  It’s not Omar’s job to get a limping team to perform well. It’s Jerry’s job. Omar has no impact on whether they play flat or not. Jerry does. Jerry seems like a GOOD guy… but this team doesn’t need a Good guy managing them. They don’t need a friend on the bench, they need a Manager.

  When Pelfrey was struggling, you know what I would have liked to have seen? How about Jerry get off the pine, and get out there and talk to your pitcher. The Pitching Coach is his friend… his allie… I would have liked to seen Jerry step up and go talk to HIS guy who HE says is our #2 starter.

  But examine Omar’s moves and you’ll have to admit he’s made more “good” than “bad” moves. It’s fact… you can’t deny it. Every GM is going to make mistakes. Was trading Bannister a mistake? Probably, but don’t forget this is a guy who had an ERA close to 6.00 last year and started this season in AAA. You think that kind of record would have survived in New York? If you do, you’re just fishing for reasons to can Omar.

  Heath Bell? Sure…but how long do you stick with a 28 year old reliever with an ERA over 5.00 for 2 years in a row? Don’t forget, Bell is 31… it’s not like we gave him up at age 25 and he proved to be better than we thought. Bell got better passed the time that most pitchers hit their prime. Again I’m not making excuses but if Heath Bell is the reason we call for Omar’s head that is just unrealistic. He went from a high pressure situation to a No pressure situation and succeeded. Great for him… but in NY, the evidence was there that said he won’t be a solid reliever.

  What about the deal he made to get Pagan? What about trading Milledge for Church & Schneider? Not like we got 2 superstars but we got 2 starters for a guy who is currently a big question mark and being dealt around like he’s a hockey players girlfriend. Didn’t we trade Cash for Brian Stokes? The trade of Nady to get Hernandez and Ollie… I mean I love Nady but I don’t think Nady would have pitched as well in the 06 playoff do you? Jae Seo basically for Duaner Sanchez? Omar wasn’t driving the Taxi Cab so you have to say this was a pretty damn good trade. Gaby Hernandez and Dante Brinkley for LoDuca in 2005? Jacobs, Petit for Delgado and Cash?

  All I’m saying is there is a lot of GOOD that gets overlooked, and it’s MOSTLY because of the 07, 08 collapses and now the injuries of this season. They need to get on the field management in there that OWNS that team.

  To me there are a LOT of better options than Manuel/Alomar tandem to manage this team than there are GM’s out there who are ready/capable to handle such a task.

  I won’t cry if Omar gets canned, but I’ll just hope that whoever does come in realizes most of our problems are on the field… not off the field.
• Mr. Met July 19, 2009 at 11:08 pm

  Great post, Joe D. The arguments here in favor of Omar are weak. First, it is not Joe D’s responsibility to come up with a comprehensive report on “what Omar could have done better.” It is permissible to conclude that a team’s management sucks if year after year, they put a deeply flawed team together. Of course, baseball is a bit like poker, in that, you can play a game perfectly, and still lose money because of bad luck. But a good poker player will not lose money game after game. And if he does, it’s permissible to conclude he sucks. You may not necessarily be able to pinpoint exactly what he could have done differently – first, because you can’t always see his cards, and second, he may be a better poker player than *you*, but still suck compared to other players, which is what counts. To continue the analogy, a lot of players who aren’t very good think that they suffer from a lot of “bad beats”, that they’re unlucky, or whatever. Seems that way with the Omar. But the best poker players don’t allow themselves to get into situations where they are susceptible to bad beats, and the only way you can infer that is from their overall record over time.

  Looking at Omar’s record, adjusting for the money he’s had available to throw at free agents, he has had one good offseason, 2005. He’s made a lot of clunkers since then, and, to quote Joe D, who put it pefectly:
  “He has shown no vision or foresight as a GM and manages the team each off-season with a band-aid approach, merely being reactive as opposed to proactive. He has proven himself to be a poor evaluator of talent” etc

  One thing I disagree with: that this year may be the “worst one yet.” The collapses of 2007 and 2008 were world-historical. DiMaggio’s record may be broken before another team matches that. This year sucks, but it’s like watching the Knicks when Isiah Thomas was coach. Embarrassing, but not painful.