Yesterday, I was told by many that I should not shed light on the solid performance by Pedro Martinez because it came against the Netherlands who happened to beat the Dominican Republic.
I was like so what? What does that matter? He went out there without the benefit of training in a Major League camp and tossed three shutout innings and struck out four. I only wish that just one of our potential number five starters could have pitched at least one scoreless inning. Combined, our number five starters (Niese, Livan, Garcia) have a 12.50 ERA through Saturday.
It just got uglier…
Today, Tim Redding made his long anticipated Mets spring debut and was rocked for five runs on five hits including two towering homeruns before finally being pulled out of the game after one-third of an inning.
His opponent? The University of Michigan. Now I guess the logic (or excuses) will be…
It’s only spring training… It was his first start… They were trying out new deliveries… It was 98 degrees that day…
Gimme a break…
Freddy Garcia actualy started the game and pitched two innings. The results… He gave up three hits and walked two hitters and was spared by two inning-ending doubleplays.
Let’s get Pedro Martinez in here! That’s what the majority of voters said yesterday when I posed the question:
Who Should Be The Mets Number 5 Starter?
Second thoughts anyone?
First of all let’s see Pedro get real major leaugers out and not some AAA Netherland team. How about Pedro go six innings against the USA or Venezuela. How can u judge him on 2 innings? 2nd of all Pedro said he will not take a incentive laden deal so…Is omar goint to pay him $10 Mil???? The amount of flip flopping that goes on here is ridiculous.
M.E.T.S. – He pitched three innings get your facts straight. Redding and Garcia got bombed by college boys. Riddle me that?
This whole site is based on alternate views, differing opinions, and you might call it flip-flopping but as our slogan said for our first two years, we are the Fair and Balanced Mets Network.
If you want one-sided coverage, the list is long…
2..3 what’s the difference he didn’t show me anything. I better not argue with you or else you’ll ban me
we’re not arguing are we?
I thought it was a good debate.
Only profanity is banned here.
Oyy Joe. If you’re gonna live and die by every players latest performance, we’re gonna have a long season.
I remember MMO clamoring for Barry Zito a few years back and being upset when he wasn’t signed. Meanwhile the “stat people” coulda told you how far he would fall. This small sample size excitement needs to be tempered, in my humble humble opinion.
In all seriousness, how much do you think the Mets could get Pedro for? He’s made it clear he doesn’t want an incentive-laden deal, and he’ll surely want more than $2-3 million. Considering Bobby Abreu signed for $5 million, and the Mets wouldn’t top that, do you really think Pedro will sign for any less than $5 million ($$ the Mets simply don’t have)?
I really wish everyone would stop with the WFAN caller nonsense here. Said it before and I’ll say it again – this is a long-term game. Stop with the short-term thinking.
It’s funny. At the end of last season, I was happy to see Pedro go. Hell, I would’ve helped him pack.
But in the words of the great philosopher, Bob Dylan, ‘The Times, They are a-changin’.
No one has yet to step forward for the #5 spot. In the survey, I actually voted for Livan. But the more I think about it, maybe we should give Pedro a shot. Yes, it’s early in Spring and shutting down The Netherlands is not exactly Rollins and Utley.
On the other hand, if no one else is a clear cut choice–and that’s the way it appears now–I would be willing to give Pedro a shot, assuming we can get him cheap. I would much rather gamble on Pedro then I would on Redding or Garcia.
Lets be honest: In the #5 spot, if Pedro pitches decent–lets say even if he goes 12-12 with a 4.75, that’s acceptable. However, if he can reach back and have one more great season, Pedro in a #5 spot could be a HUGE plus. A solid Pedro as #5 and then back to Johan would be quite a 1-2 punch…or technically, a 5-1 punch.
Then again, it’s Spring and we all tend to optimistic, hopeful and perhaps, living in a dream world.
Joe, the following was posted by you on March 7, 2007 after you listed the stats of Mets pitchers after the first week or so of spring training:
“So what does all this mean at this stage of the game? Absolutely nothing. It’s till to early, and such a small sampling of raw data is not enough to make any judgments.”
So which is it? Is it too early to tell? Or is it NOW NOW NOW SIGN PEDRO NOW NOW NOW!
lol, James you’re killin me man… good job!
You know I did that poll just to see if I was in the majority after we corresponded yesterday.
It really doesnt prove anything except it shows that the small data sample has shifted the opinions of many. I have nothing to compare it too, but I’d bet two weeks ago Redding gets 40-50% of the vote.
To answer your question though, it’s still too early to tell.
But, I’ll be monitoring it just like you and we’ll see how it all ends up on April 1st.
OK sounds good. And believe me, it’s not as if I’m staunchly anti-Pedro or pro-Redding regardless of how they perform. Like, if Pedro continues to pitch great and the $$ is right, and Redding doesn’t improve, I’d change my mind.
I just believe in weighing long term performance a lot more than short term, that’s all. Unfortunately most fans are short-term in thinking, hence the results of the poll. I bet if you ran the same poll about catcher, Ivan Rodriguez would have 90% of the vote.
Well, you all know where I stand.
A part of me says give the whole process another 10 or 12 days, but I really fear Martinez getting signed by someone else.
Redding was the only guy who seemed like a decent possibility, but then I slapped myself upside the head a few times after looking at his career. I mean, the guy just screams “muddling mediocrity.” I hope the Top Brass is fixated on the 5th spot. I just feel we’ve got a collection of bums slated for it as is.
Incidentally, Moises looked good in his AB yesterday–I’m kidding, really.
Last season’s Mets bullpen debacle was preceded by Omar’s miscalculation of his bullpen strength. He had the 2007 results to evaluate personnel, but he tried to get by with some guys who proved to be inadequate in 2008.
So why is he being stubborn again? The fans will be after his derriere if the bullpen or the Number 5 slot fails. In reality it appears that he isn’t being allowed to rent decent throwing arms but since he is the key management decision maker for personnel from the fans’ view (of course the Wilpons determine the executive decisions of total salary levels), the buck stops with him.
Good luck, Omar! I just hope you don’t really have to rely on luck.
If Pedro rejoined The Mets there’s no question that he’d get hurt in one of his first 3 starts….a hip, a hamstring, etc. He’s fools gold. Forget about him.
CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
NOT SURE HE EVEN REALIZED IT; BUT M.E.T.S. HIT THE REAl NAIL ON THE HEAD BY STATING: How about Pedro go six innings against the USA or Venezuela. WHAT I’D CERTAINLY WANT TO BE CONVINCED OF IS THAT PEDRO HAS THE STAMINA TO GO 6 AGAINST ANYONE, INCLUDING A LOCAL HS SQUAD. WE’VE ALREADY GOT OLLIE BEING QUETIONABLE BEYOND 6, WE CAN’T AFFORD A 5 IP AS #5, WE NEED AN INNINGS EATER FOR THE PEN. STUFF IS GREAT @ #5; BUT REMEMBER EVEN IN ’06 WE CARRIED TRACH’S 4.97 ERA TO 15 Ws. @ #5 GIVE ME STAMINA OVER STUFF, THOUGH STUFF WON’T BE SNORTED AT.
Oooooh, I had a feeling someone would bring up Trachs.
Don’t you think the fact the Mets scored so many runs every time that bum pitched defines the word phenomenal? I would not like to rely on that happening again.
We won those games by scores of 9-7, 8-6, 11-8. Seriously, it is simply amazing he had 15 wins considering how badly he pitched ordinarily.
Anyway, the most compelling arguments contra PMart are the ones peaking to his lack of stamina and injury-prone status.
WHILE PEDRO IS REACHING 91-93 IN HIS FIRST OUTING. WHAT’S HIS VELOCITY GOING TO BE IN OUTING #15? THE FACT THAT HIS OPPONENT WAS THE WC NEATHERLANDS’ TEAM IS IRRELEVANT. HIS STUFF WAS CERTAINLY THERE & STUFF DOESN’T VARY BY OPPONENT. IT DOES VARY BY TIME.
THE METS NEED A #5 TO CONTRIBUTE BETWEEN 15-20 GS, 150-180 IP. IF NOT PEDRO, SOMEONE ELSE, W-L RECORD IS SECONDARY, HELL IN ’06 THEY WON THE DIV WITH TRACHSEL’S NEAR 5.00 ERA GETTING 15 Ws. BASED ON THAT CRITERIA ALONE, THE ONLY CANDIDATES PEDRO IS A DOMINANT CONSIDERATION OVER WOULD BE NEISE & GARCIA. WHILE, PEDRO’S STUFF IN MARCH IS SUPERIOR TO BOTH HERNANDEZ & REDDING, I’M CONFIDENT BOTH REDDING & HERNANDEZ HAVE A BETTER SHOT AT EFFECTIVELY STARTING IN THE WASHINGTON SERIES, 9/28-9/30.
WITH OLIVER PEREZ QUESTIONABLE BEYOND THE 6th THEY MUST HAVE A #5 GOING AT LEAST 6, SO FAR THAT HASN’T BEEN PEDRO. SINCE HIS BREAKDOWN LEFT US STRANDED FOR ’06 PLAYOFFS, PEDRO’S RELIABILITY HAS BEEN AN ISSUE: HE STARTED 23G IN ’06, 5 IN ’07, 20 IN ’08 CONTRIBUTING 132 IP IN ’06, 28 IN ’07 & 109 IN ’08. HIS ABILITY TO PROVIDE MORE THAN THAT IS QUESTIONABLE AND WITH PEREZ ALREADY NOT CONSIDERED AN INNINGS EATER, DELIBERATE ADDITION OF ANOTHER BULLPEN BURNER IS INVITING AN UNRAVELING OF WHAT OMAR ACCOMPLISHED IN THE OFFSEASON BULLPEN FACELIFT.
WHILE THE SENTIMENTAL CHOICE SHOULD BE PEDRO, IT’S UNFORTUNATE THAT PEDRO LIKE PIAZZA NEEDS TO MOVE ON TO PROVIDE THIS TEAM WITH WHAT IT SORELY NEEDS A STRONG FINISH.
METS62FAN – You are the voice of reason on this site, and rarely do I disagree with your opinions. In this particular post you hit on a common pitfall of most Mets fans, and that is being too sentimetal.
One must avoid sentiment at all cost when making baseball decisions because they are not based on logic.
Say no to Pedro for now, and say yes to Pedor in 6-7 years when his name comes up for the Hall of Fame voting.